6 ms·

South Korean Workers Turn the Tables on Their Bad Bosses

66 points by mistersquid 4y ago

noasaservice 4y ago
Frankly, that's good news. This, I would also argue, is the worldwide phenomenon of "the great resignation". Naturally, the name itself means to quit. However in proceeding months, it also represents unionization, representation, work slowdowns, walkoffs, pickets, and much more. South Korea's response here seems more about focusing legal and societal pressure against these mega-owners. Which, again, is laudable.
- pempem 4y ago
  Agreed as long as its a step, rather than a final destination.
boomboomsubban 4y ago
Unless I'm missing something "turning the tables" means an abuse hotline existing, with a few people having their reputation tarnished because of their appalling behavior. There don't seem to be any major changes implemented, and I imagine it's only a matter of time before the powerful start labeling it "cancel culture" and generating a backlash.
- yesbut 4y ago
  The ruling class doesn't mind people complaining. As long as it doesn't cost them financially or any political power then they'll cheer you on.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Who is the ruling class?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - dontlaugh 4y ago
      In capitalist countries (like liberal democracies), the ruling class are the large capitalists.
      - ericmay 4y ago
        Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries?
        monkey_monkey 4y ago
        Oh come on, this isn't difficult. Who do you think the ruling class is in North Korea? Who do you think the ruling class was in the Soviet Union?
        yesbut 4y ago
        He's trolling
        qiskit 4y ago
        For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?
        ericmay 4y ago
        What should I do with this information?
        qiskit 4y ago
        Use it as inspiration to upvote me of course.
MafellUser 4y ago
There's something deep inside the South Korean's psyche where social hierarchy is revered and absolute, yet it's also the same country where they could prosecute people with power (see the example of President Park's impeachment in the article, and to a lesser extent Samsung heir Lee Jae-yong). Is the tide turning for real this time?
- upupandup 4y ago
  No. Barring some type of mass social destabilization (I provide a very real scenario at the end), it won't change. One concern I have with gapjil highlighted in the article is that what if somebody falsely accuses their bosses? There seems to be something like The People's Court happening. I do not doubt there is abusive relationships but I fear that this could quickly devolve into a cultural revolution of sorts. While I can't generalize every rich people in Korea, met nice people but also I've met those who openly deride/mock/ridicule people poorer (regionalism where if you don't live in a particular neighborhood in Seoul, you are automatically beneath them), which actually isn't limited to Korea but elitism can be found in any society. From anecdotal experience, what I found particularly obnoxious and tiring is this hyper obsession with status and how they are perceived which in neo-confucian cultures is the pinnacle driving force towards self-regulation and civilization in this region have become very stable and non-violent as a result relatively compared to other regions. There is this constant never ending competition of how they are being outdone materialistically which now replaces the traditional neo-confucian values. Being rich means your offsprings have a very good chance at achieving confucius approved career paths and access to elite education. Because the education system is not only corrupt, it has created a secondary market where students are discriminated on their financial capacity of their parents. Those without access to cram schools, the best tutors, are largely left on their own. The university exam will determine your place in society and I've looked at some of the questions say English exam. They were not about learning English for daily use but were designed to mislead, trick, and produce failures. A native speaker would not be able to do well on those exams because the questions make LSAT questions seem walk in teh park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc). One upside is that Koreans speak far better English than their regional peers but has it translated into any economic benefit for the country? The economy is still a third of Japan's and its reliant on just a handful of family run conglomerates. Contrary to belief that South Korea is this ultra-nationalist collective, there's been a huge surge in individualism since the 90s, and each financial crisis have furthered the wealth gap and people's faith. There used to be lineups to melt personal gold heirloom to pay back IMF in '99 which all it did was bailing out the chaebol groups which caused the problem. It won't happen again this time. It's become significantly worse after the '98 and '08 financial crisis and there is another looming household credit bubble implosion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw) which I can see destabilizing the country and the dwindling birth rate only compounds to the problem (think 1/3rd of Japan's economy with 2~3x the rate of population decline and extrapolate). They've been slowly dabbling with immigration but many end up leaving because the society is too complex and insular (jus sanguinis like Japan) One common theme throughout human history, and most recently Syria, whenever you have half the country's population living in a dense capital with growing number of young single NEET men, paired with household debt (often 2nd, 3rd tier like loan sharks), dwindling birth rate, it can quickly become volatile.
octagons 4y ago
Very much off topic from the article, but I've always found modern South Korean culture to be very interesting. Is there a resource or book that lends more insight into today's mentality/zeitgeist of South Korea?
etskinner 4y ago
https://archive.ph/vxZDQ https://archive.ph/vxZDQ
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

66 points by mistersquid 4y ago

Frankly, that's good news. This, I would also argue, is the worldwide phenomenon of "the great resignation". Naturally, the name itself means to quit. However in proceeding months, it also represents unionization, representation, work slowdowns, walkoffs, pickets, and much more. South Korea's response here seems more about focusing legal and societal pressure against these mega-owners. Which, again, is laudable.

pempem 4y ago
Agreed as long as its a step, rather than a final destination.

boomboomsubban 4y ago

Unless I'm missing something "turning the tables" means an abuse hotline existing, with a few people having their reputation tarnished because of their appalling behavior. There don't seem to be any major changes implemented, and I imagine it's only a matter of time before the powerful start labeling it "cancel culture" and generating a backlash.

yesbut 4y ago
The ruling class doesn't mind people complaining. As long as it doesn't cost them financially or any political power then they'll cheer you on.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Who is the ruling class?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - dontlaugh 4y ago
    In capitalist countries (like liberal democracies), the ruling class are the large capitalists.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries?
      - monkey_monkey 4y ago
        Oh come on, this isn't difficult. Who do you think the ruling class is in North Korea? Who do you think the ruling class was in the Soviet Union?
        yesbut 4y ago
        He's trolling
      - qiskit 4y ago
        For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?
        ericmay 4y ago
        What should I do with this information?
        qiskit 4y ago
        Use it as inspiration to upvote me of course.

MafellUser 4y ago

There's something deep inside the South Korean's psyche where social hierarchy is revered and absolute, yet it's also the same country where they could prosecute people with power (see the example of President Park's impeachment in the article, and to a lesser extent Samsung heir Lee Jae-yong). Is the tide turning for real this time?

upupandup 4y ago
No. Barring some type of mass social destabilization (I provide a very real scenario at the end), it won't change. One concern I have with gapjil highlighted in the article is that what if somebody falsely accuses their bosses? There seems to be something like The People's Court happening. I do not doubt there is abusive relationships but I fear that this could quickly devolve into a cultural revolution of sorts. While I can't generalize every rich people in Korea, met nice people but also I've met those who openly deride/mock/ridicule people poorer (regionalism where if you don't live in a particular neighborhood in Seoul, you are automatically beneath them), which actually isn't limited to Korea but elitism can be found in any society. From anecdotal experience, what I found particularly obnoxious and tiring is this hyper obsession with status and how they are perceived which in neo-confucian cultures is the pinnacle driving force towards self-regulation and civilization in this region have become very stable and non-violent as a result relatively compared to other regions. There is this constant never ending competition of how they are being outdone materialistically which now replaces the traditional neo-confucian values. Being rich means your offsprings have a very good chance at achieving confucius approved career paths and access to elite education. Because the education system is not only corrupt, it has created a secondary market where students are discriminated on their financial capacity of their parents. Those without access to cram schools, the best tutors, are largely left on their own. The university exam will determine your place in society and I've looked at some of the questions say English exam. They were not about learning English for daily use but were designed to mislead, trick, and produce failures. A native speaker would not be able to do well on those exams because the questions make LSAT questions seem walk in teh park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc). One upside is that Koreans speak far better English than their regional peers but has it translated into any economic benefit for the country? The economy is still a third of Japan's and its reliant on just a handful of family run conglomerates. Contrary to belief that South Korea is this ultra-nationalist collective, there's been a huge surge in individualism since the 90s, and each financial crisis have furthered the wealth gap and people's faith. There used to be lineups to melt personal gold heirloom to pay back IMF in '99 which all it did was bailing out the chaebol groups which caused the problem. It won't happen again this time. It's become significantly worse after the '98 and '08 financial crisis and there is another looming household credit bubble implosion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw) which I can see destabilizing the country and the dwindling birth rate only compounds to the problem (think 1/3rd of Japan's economy with 2~3x the rate of population decline and extrapolate). They've been slowly dabbling with immigration but many end up leaving because the society is too complex and insular (jus sanguinis like Japan) One common theme throughout human history, and most recently Syria, whenever you have half the country's population living in a dense capital with growing number of young single NEET men, paired with household debt (often 2nd, 3rd tier like loan sharks), dwindling birth rate, it can quickly become volatile.

octagons 4y ago

Very much off topic from the article, but I've always found modern South Korean culture to be very interesting. Is there a resource or book that lends more insight into today's mentality/zeitgeist of South Korea?

etskinner 4y ago

https://archive.ph/vxZDQ https://archive.ph/vxZDQ

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]