5 ms·

I knew this was going to be about or by KEF from the title. This is the link to the paper: https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=20758 https://www.aes.org/

by buro9 4y ago

I knew this was going to be about or by KEF from the title. This is the link to the paper: https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=20758 https://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=20758 These are speakers with this: https://uk.kef.com/pages/ls50-meta https://uk.kef.com/pages/ls50-meta And this is the marketing page for the same item as the paper covers: https://uk.kef.com/pages/metamaterial https://uk.kef.com/pages/metamaterial I listened to these speakers... they are good. But I didn't find them "better" than others I listened to in my room (I home auditioned quite a few speaker pairs), a bit too crisp, cold and surgical. That was likely nothing to do with the metamaterial absorption and probably more to do with the way the electronics inside worked. YMMV, listen to them to find out. In the end for me, I opted for far more traditional speakers: near field I have some PSI Audio studio monitors ( https://www.psiaudio.swiss/ https://www.psiaudio.swiss/ ), and for the larger room some Tannoy Eatons ( https://www.tannoy.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DEL https://www.tannoy.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DEL ). I do have some recent KEFs, but they're for the kitchen radio(!). I would be far more interested in this material and approach being taken out of loudspeakers and implemented in transport modes that have high background noise, or in baffles in concert halls (or even cafes!).

balfirevic 4y ago
> I have some PSI Audio studio monitors Ouch, those are expensive. Any small studio monitors (4 or 5 inch woofer) you'd recommend in $500-$600 range (per speaker)? I can't really try many out where I live, unfortunately.
- buro9 4y ago
  Audio is very personal. As a vague hand-wavey thing, humans hear 95% of the same thing (women hear more!) and it's the individual 5% difference that matters. Plus the room you place speakers in matters (lots of hard surfaces in a room that is a box makes a messy sound that bounces around, you have to shape the acoustics to avoid making good speakers sound bad and also to make good speakers sound great), and if the room is large small speakers can disappear and sound small. And of course what you listen to also matters. The PSI Audio are studio monitors... they reveal everything, they're as close to perfect as you can imagine so long as you sit 1m from them (I've been in studios, these sound like being there with the band). But studio monitors reveal all the flaws too. They're not for everyone, in fact they're not far the vast majority of people. I can't really help based on what you asked... room size, music style, how good your ears are, whether you want active (amp built in) or passive (needs an amp), what your usual music source is... these are all the big parameters. But for your budget, if you just want "good speakers with no fuss and everything built in"... go look at the KEF LSX https://uk.kef.com/products/lsx https://uk.kef.com/products/lsx . They're not superlative compared to the others I mentioned, but they are superlative compared to a Sonos or equivalent. If you have a huge room they still may disappear and sound weak, but they'll do OK for most family rooms in most countries.
  - balfirevic 4y ago
    Thanks for the answer! Sorry for not giving more details initially - I am actually looking for studio monitors, powered. I'm going to sit very close to them (they will be on my working desk which is 200x80cm). Small room - around 13 m^2. My ear is pretty unrefined :) Reason for monitors vs. general purpose speakers is that I do some recording and want to use them when playing guitar through modelers. But since they are going to be on my desk, I'm also going to listen to music through them, mostly on Spotify. I currently have a pair of 8-inch Tannoy Reveal which I got from a friend, but they are pretty terrible for this size of room and distance I'm listening at. Your LSX recommendation might actually be great for my living room!
- 323 4y ago
  One universal recommendation would be to make sure that whatever you buy, they have 1 inch silk tweeters. Makes a lot of difference.
- FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
  KRK ROKIT are very good bang for your buck nearfield power studio monitors. As studio monitors they are very flat and clinical, though. You also probably are going to want a subwoofer. Properly balanced, you can get any system to sound pretty good. My system right now is a Rythmik sub plus vintage Ohm speakers and I replaced the crossovers with a MiniDSP running Dirac room correction.
- radiowave 4y ago
  I think buro9's recommendation is pretty sound. I have some smaller/older/cheaper KEF speakers on my desk, where I don't have the space to put the larger PMC speakers I would normally use. They have a dual-concentric design that is clearly related to that of the LSX and LS50, and (at the risk of "dancing about architecture") I've been very impressed with the clarity and directness of the sound. On the basis of that experience, I'd certainly have the LSX/LS50 on my shortlist if I was looking for speakers in that size.
- atoav 4y ago
  Neumann KH-120 would fit that range somewhat and they are great. Solid aluminum case, stable as hell, extremely good with spoken word and language.
xnorswap 4y ago
> But I didn't find them "better" than others Once you spend anything but the minimum on speakers then you very quickly find that everything else in the room has a far bigger impact on the sound than the speakers themselves. The size of room, floor material, wall material, etc all have a huge impact on the sound. Obsession over "fidelity" is fine in an actual recording studio but makes no sense for actual home listening where just moving around the room will change the sound, so who's to say what the "correct" sound is.
- 323 4y ago
  You are correct, acoustics are more important than speakers. That being said, there is huge difference between speakers too. I listened once to a wall of different studio monitors in a music shop, and the differences between them were very obvious. And there was no clear "best", at least not in a subjective kind. The objective specs were pretty similar since they were all mid-range price wise.
  - atoav 4y ago
    But wouldn't it be expected to hear differences between different speakers in the same room? This still doesn't rule oit that the thing making or breaking your sound could be your acoustics.

by buro9 4y ago

balfirevic 4y ago

> I have some PSI Audio studio monitors Ouch, those are expensive. Any small studio monitors (4 or 5 inch woofer) you'd recommend in $500-$600 range (per speaker)? I can't really try many out where I live, unfortunately.

buro9 4y ago
Audio is very personal. As a vague hand-wavey thing, humans hear 95% of the same thing (women hear more!) and it's the individual 5% difference that matters. Plus the room you place speakers in matters (lots of hard surfaces in a room that is a box makes a messy sound that bounces around, you have to shape the acoustics to avoid making good speakers sound bad and also to make good speakers sound great), and if the room is large small speakers can disappear and sound small. And of course what you listen to also matters. The PSI Audio are studio monitors... they reveal everything, they're as close to perfect as you can imagine so long as you sit 1m from them (I've been in studios, these sound like being there with the band). But studio monitors reveal all the flaws too. They're not for everyone, in fact they're not far the vast majority of people. I can't really help based on what you asked... room size, music style, how good your ears are, whether you want active (amp built in) or passive (needs an amp), what your usual music source is... these are all the big parameters. But for your budget, if you just want "good speakers with no fuss and everything built in"... go look at the KEF LSX https://uk.kef.com/products/lsx https://uk.kef.com/products/lsx . They're not superlative compared to the others I mentioned, but they are superlative compared to a Sonos or equivalent. If you have a huge room they still may disappear and sound weak, but they'll do OK for most family rooms in most countries.
- balfirevic 4y ago
  Thanks for the answer! Sorry for not giving more details initially - I am actually looking for studio monitors, powered. I'm going to sit very close to them (they will be on my working desk which is 200x80cm). Small room - around 13 m^2. My ear is pretty unrefined :) Reason for monitors vs. general purpose speakers is that I do some recording and want to use them when playing guitar through modelers. But since they are going to be on my desk, I'm also going to listen to music through them, mostly on Spotify. I currently have a pair of 8-inch Tannoy Reveal which I got from a friend, but they are pretty terrible for this size of room and distance I'm listening at. Your LSX recommendation might actually be great for my living room!
323 4y ago
One universal recommendation would be to make sure that whatever you buy, they have 1 inch silk tweeters. Makes a lot of difference.
FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
KRK ROKIT are very good bang for your buck nearfield power studio monitors. As studio monitors they are very flat and clinical, though. You also probably are going to want a subwoofer. Properly balanced, you can get any system to sound pretty good. My system right now is a Rythmik sub plus vintage Ohm speakers and I replaced the crossovers with a MiniDSP running Dirac room correction.
radiowave 4y ago
I think buro9's recommendation is pretty sound. I have some smaller/older/cheaper KEF speakers on my desk, where I don't have the space to put the larger PMC speakers I would normally use. They have a dual-concentric design that is clearly related to that of the LSX and LS50, and (at the risk of "dancing about architecture") I've been very impressed with the clarity and directness of the sound. On the basis of that experience, I'd certainly have the LSX/LS50 on my shortlist if I was looking for speakers in that size.
atoav 4y ago
Neumann KH-120 would fit that range somewhat and they are great. Solid aluminum case, stable as hell, extremely good with spoken word and language.

xnorswap 4y ago

> But I didn't find them "better" than others Once you spend anything but the minimum on speakers then you very quickly find that everything else in the room has a far bigger impact on the sound than the speakers themselves. The size of room, floor material, wall material, etc all have a huge impact on the sound. Obsession over "fidelity" is fine in an actual recording studio but makes no sense for actual home listening where just moving around the room will change the sound, so who's to say what the "correct" sound is.

323 4y ago
You are correct, acoustics are more important than speakers. That being said, there is huge difference between speakers too. I listened once to a wall of different studio monitors in a music shop, and the differences between them were very obvious. And there was no clear "best", at least not in a subjective kind. The objective specs were pretty similar since they were all mid-range price wise.
- atoav 4y ago
  But wouldn't it be expected to hear differences between different speakers in the same room? This still doesn't rule oit that the thing making or breaking your sound could be your acoustics.