4 ms·

Simply: no. Take a cold hard look at the institutions that fail children so spectacularly that they create mass murderers at a historically unprecedented rate.

PpEY4fu85hkQpn 4y ago
What leads you do believe "the institutions" in the USA are are failing children at a substantially higher rate than any other country? And what specifically are you even talking about?
- teakettle42 4y ago
  We didn’t previously produce mass murderers as at anywhere near this rate. Why are our children so incredibly poorly served by our educational and social institutions, and their families? What has changed? Creating mass murderers is the problem, not guns.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
I did, that’s why I changed my mind about guns.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  You came to believe that guns create mass murderers? Either you never really held a belief in the right to self-defense and are arguing in bad faith (which, frankly, is most likely), or if you did change your mind due to such a ridiculous premise, you never had a coherent argument for gun rights in the first place.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    > You came to believe that guns create mass murderers? I came to believe that the institutions which continue to not just protect widespread proliferation of firearms, but to rally around it as a culture war battle, are the ones failing children. I’m not sure how to engage with the phrasing “create mass murderers”. But those institutions are certainly enabling those who would be. > Either you never really held a belief in the right to self-defense and are arguing in bad faith (which, frankly, is most likely) Oh I still believe in the right to self-defense. And in all honesty I haven’t moved much philosophically on the subject of firearms specifically. But in terms of the practical reality, I just don’t believe we’re going to solve the problem without addressing our gun culture and significantly reducing availability/access. > or if you did change your mind due to such a ridiculous premise, you never had a coherent argument for gun rights in the first place. Oh it was coherent. The shift came at the same time as I shifted away from anarchism towards communism. Can’t really get more coherent than a fundamental question of the role, if any, of the state in dictating what’s permissible. My attitude toward that question has shifted on a great deal of things. Not to serve the ideological shift, but causing it. It hasn’t shifted far, granted.
bratbag 4y ago
One of those failing institutions is the one that should be keeping weapons of easy mass-murder out of their hands.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  We don’t need to control everything to be safe; if anything, that’s a major detriment to our capacity to raise emotionally resilient human beings, and ultimately, makes us all less safe. This kind of institutional thinking is — in part — why we keep raising these broken children in the first place.

PpEY4fu85hkQpn 4y ago

What leads you do believe "the institutions" in the USA are are failing children at a substantially higher rate than any other country? And what specifically are you even talking about?

teakettle42 4y ago
We didn’t previously produce mass murderers as at anywhere near this rate. Why are our children so incredibly poorly served by our educational and social institutions, and their families? What has changed? Creating mass murderers is the problem, not guns.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

I did, that’s why I changed my mind about guns.

teakettle42 4y ago
You came to believe that guns create mass murderers? Either you never really held a belief in the right to self-defense and are arguing in bad faith (which, frankly, is most likely), or if you did change your mind due to such a ridiculous premise, you never had a coherent argument for gun rights in the first place.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  > You came to believe that guns create mass murderers? I came to believe that the institutions which continue to not just protect widespread proliferation of firearms, but to rally around it as a culture war battle, are the ones failing children. I’m not sure how to engage with the phrasing “create mass murderers”. But those institutions are certainly enabling those who would be. > Either you never really held a belief in the right to self-defense and are arguing in bad faith (which, frankly, is most likely) Oh I still believe in the right to self-defense. And in all honesty I haven’t moved much philosophically on the subject of firearms specifically. But in terms of the practical reality, I just don’t believe we’re going to solve the problem without addressing our gun culture and significantly reducing availability/access. > or if you did change your mind due to such a ridiculous premise, you never had a coherent argument for gun rights in the first place. Oh it was coherent. The shift came at the same time as I shifted away from anarchism towards communism. Can’t really get more coherent than a fundamental question of the role, if any, of the state in dictating what’s permissible. My attitude toward that question has shifted on a great deal of things. Not to serve the ideological shift, but causing it. It hasn’t shifted far, granted.

bratbag 4y ago

One of those failing institutions is the one that should be keeping weapons of easy mass-murder out of their hands.

teakettle42 4y ago
We don’t need to control everything to be safe; if anything, that’s a major detriment to our capacity to raise emotionally resilient human beings, and ultimately, makes us all less safe. This kind of institutional thinking is — in part — why we keep raising these broken children in the first place.