8 ms·

>People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. This is extraordinarily rar

by sb057 4y ago

>People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. This is extraordinarily rare. >People shouldn't point a gun at someone unless their life is in danger and they're prepared to take a life, but they do and people get shot by accident, or road rage turns deadly. Brandishing weapons is illegal in every state and not pointing the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy is basic gun safety. >Not to mention the suicides. If you own a gun ideation can turn into action in less than 30 seconds and it can seem like a painless, easy way to go. There's no evidence to suggest that gun ownership causes higher levels of suicide. Additionally, suicide isn't a crime.

Hamuko 4y ago
>not pointing the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy is basic gun safety. Are you required to know basic gun safety in order to obtain one?
- umvi 4y ago
  No, for the same reason you don't need to have basic civility/racial sensitivity training to exercise free speech.
  - axiomsEnd 4y ago
    But you have to pass driving test before using a car...
    - tomatotomato37 4y ago
      Freedom of assisted movement isn't a constitutional right
      - bobkazamakis 4y ago
        Interesting that you would call it freedom of assisted movement -- don't you think that the arms the founding fathers had in mind weren't mass-produced in the state they are in now?
    - bluGill 4y ago
    - chipsa 4y ago
      But I don't before buying the car. Or to use the car on private land.
  - Damogran6 4y ago
    Maybe that’s a problem? Sure, it’d be easy for the conversation to devolve into ‘you can say what the government trains you to say’, but everyone knows you can’t yell ‘fire’ in a theatre.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
  Are you required to know basic knife safety to buy a knife? Fire safety to buy a lighter? The age gate means that society at one point thought that basic gun safety would be learned before a certain age or maturity would set in or something like that. Society is what has changed.
- pc86 4y ago
  In many states, yes.
scotty79 4y ago
> There's no evidence to suggest that gun ownership causes higher levels of suicide. Literally 5 seconds to google: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... > Additionally, suicide isn't a crime. Why would that matter? Restricting access to guns is not aimed at reducing crime, but tragedies.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  > men who owned handguns were eight times more likely to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, and women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely to kill themselves with a gun Emphasis mine. This says nothing about suicide rates, just suicide by gun rates. Yes, people who own guns are more likely to kill themselves with a gun. This is obvious. People who own stairs are more likely to fall down the stairs. People who have a dog are more likely to be bitten by a dog. Etc, etc.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    Fair point. Here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownership-major-risk-factor-suicide-n1223666 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownersh... Literally the second link in google search "gun ownership suicide" after that previous one. "four-fold increase overall in the risk of suicide"
- lliamander 4y ago
  The suicide rate in South Korea is quite high, yet the rate of gun ownership is low, and guns are typically not the method of choice. There is more going on in US suicide statistics than merely the presence of guns.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    You can't compare suicide rates between countries. Too many confounding factors. But you can compare suicide rates between people in the same state who are gun owners and not. They did and it turned out that gun owners have 4 times higher risk of suicide (by any method) than others. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownership-major-risk-factor-suicide-n1223666 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownersh... "four-fold increase overall in the risk of suicide"
flaviut 4y ago
> Estimates over the past two decades suggest that 200,000 to 500,000 guns are stolen each year in the United States. https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/32630640/5385318.pdf https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/32630640/5385318...
Damogran6 4y ago
“This is extraordinarily rare” As is mass shootings, when considering the population…what’s different is that all murder/suicides are now perfectly announced to everyone, almost instantly. This problem needs several factors to resolve, and perfectly doing all of them (hardening soft targets, mental health response, reduction in the availability of guns, intervention in situations of parental abuse and neglect) will still not, 100%, make the problem go away. It’s a factor of a large population, people with a moral/ethical gap - possibly due to external factors, with ready access to very effective tools, broadcast to a passive population instantly - which brings revenue to the media.

by sb057 4y ago

Hamuko 4y ago

>not pointing the muzzle of a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy is basic gun safety. Are you required to know basic gun safety in order to obtain one?

umvi 4y ago
No, for the same reason you don't need to have basic civility/racial sensitivity training to exercise free speech.
- axiomsEnd 4y ago
  But you have to pass driving test before using a car...
  - tomatotomato37 4y ago
    Freedom of assisted movement isn't a constitutional right
    - bobkazamakis 4y ago
      Interesting that you would call it freedom of assisted movement -- don't you think that the arms the founding fathers had in mind weren't mass-produced in the state they are in now?
  - bluGill 4y ago
  - chipsa 4y ago
    But I don't before buying the car. Or to use the car on private land.
- Damogran6 4y ago
  Maybe that’s a problem? Sure, it’d be easy for the conversation to devolve into ‘you can say what the government trains you to say’, but everyone knows you can’t yell ‘fire’ in a theatre.
bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
Are you required to know basic knife safety to buy a knife? Fire safety to buy a lighter? The age gate means that society at one point thought that basic gun safety would be learned before a certain age or maturity would set in or something like that. Society is what has changed.
pc86 4y ago
In many states, yes.

scotty79 4y ago

> There's no evidence to suggest that gun ownership causes higher levels of suicide. Literally 5 seconds to google: https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-ownership-associated-with-much-higher-suicide-risk.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner... > Additionally, suicide isn't a crime. Why would that matter? Restricting access to guns is not aimed at reducing crime, but tragedies.

wilsonnb3 4y ago
> men who owned handguns were eight times more likely to die of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, and women who owned handguns were more than 35 times more likely to kill themselves with a gun Emphasis mine. This says nothing about suicide rates, just suicide by gun rates. Yes, people who own guns are more likely to kill themselves with a gun. This is obvious. People who own stairs are more likely to fall down the stairs. People who have a dog are more likely to be bitten by a dog. Etc, etc.
- scotty79 4y ago
  Fair point. Here you go: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownership-major-risk-factor-suicide-n1223666 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownersh... Literally the second link in google search "gun ownership suicide" after that previous one. "four-fold increase overall in the risk of suicide"
lliamander 4y ago
The suicide rate in South Korea is quite high, yet the rate of gun ownership is low, and guns are typically not the method of choice. There is more going on in US suicide statistics than merely the presence of guns.
- scotty79 4y ago
  You can't compare suicide rates between countries. Too many confounding factors. But you can compare suicide rates between people in the same state who are gun owners and not. They did and it turned out that gun owners have 4 times higher risk of suicide (by any method) than others. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownership-major-risk-factor-suicide-n1223666 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/mental-health/handgun-ownersh... "four-fold increase overall in the risk of suicide"

flaviut 4y ago

> Estimates over the past two decades suggest that 200,000 to 500,000 guns are stolen each year in the United States. https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/32630640/5385318.pdf https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/32630640/5385318...

Damogran6 4y ago

“This is extraordinarily rare” As is mass shootings, when considering the population…what’s different is that all murder/suicides are now perfectly announced to everyone, almost instantly. This problem needs several factors to resolve, and perfectly doing all of them (hardening soft targets, mental health response, reduction in the availability of guns, intervention in situations of parental abuse and neglect) will still not, 100%, make the problem go away. It’s a factor of a large population, people with a moral/ethical gap - possibly due to external factors, with ready access to very effective tools, broadcast to a passive population instantly - which brings revenue to the media.