3 ms·

> There's no link between the US' foundation and the shooting school children bar the (intended point) difficulty of restricting gun ownership and access Ok, b

by pdonis 4y ago

> There's no link between the US' foundation and the shooting school children bar the (intended point) difficulty of restricting gun ownership and access Ok, but why is this even a point worth making? The "difficulty" you refer to is there precisely because being a law-abiding gun owner who would still use their gun to defend against tyranny is not the same as being a criminal who uses a gun to shoot innocent people. Since they're not the same, calling it a "difficulty" that you can't take away the law-abiding citizens' guns in order to keep criminals from getting them makes no sense. If your intent was only to take away guns from the criminals, not the law-abiding citizens, then the "difficulty" is not that the law abiding citizens view gun ownership as part and parcel of freedom. The difficulty is that of judging who is a law-abiding citizen and who is a criminal in advance, before any gun is used for anything. But, as others have posted elsewhere in this thread, the law-abiding citizens who own guns are overwhelmingly in favor of requiring people to show some evidence of being responsible law-abiding citizens before they can buy a gun, just as we require people to show evidence of being responsible drivers before we let them drive cars on public roads.

prawn 4y ago
They're talking about why guns are ingrained in American culture. A school shooting is quite separate to the points they were making. I think it was more explaining why any discussion with Americans about it is such a challenge, and why progress (on say background checks and so on) is difficult. There are other countries where you don't really even know a gun owner and outside of video games or movies, entire social circles go months without even mentioning guns because they just aren't a big part of the localised zeitgeist. Completely different in the US where guns were a big part of the origin story of the nation.
BLKNSLVR 4y ago
> Ok, but why is this even a point worth making? Because it's a core component of the topic of this discussion thread. I think we're coming in at different angles to each other, but given what you've said here: > law-abiding citizens who own guns are overwhelmingly in favor of requiring people to show some evidence of being responsible law-abiding citizens before they can buy a gun, just as we require people to show evidence of being responsible drivers before we let them drive cars on public roads. I don't think we're in disagreement over some fundamental logical pathway to improvement. However, back to my original point: On this topic logic don't play, because history. (and a powerful, entrenched lobby that leverages this emotional topic using slippery-slope, fear-of-loss-of-identity arguments).

by pdonis 4y ago

prawn 4y ago

They're talking about why guns are ingrained in American culture. A school shooting is quite separate to the points they were making. I think it was more explaining why any discussion with Americans about it is such a challenge, and why progress (on say background checks and so on) is difficult. There are other countries where you don't really even know a gun owner and outside of video games or movies, entire social circles go months without even mentioning guns because they just aren't a big part of the localised zeitgeist. Completely different in the US where guns were a big part of the origin story of the nation.

BLKNSLVR 4y ago

> Ok, but why is this even a point worth making? Because it's a core component of the topic of this discussion thread. I think we're coming in at different angles to each other, but given what you've said here: > law-abiding citizens who own guns are overwhelmingly in favor of requiring people to show some evidence of being responsible law-abiding citizens before they can buy a gun, just as we require people to show evidence of being responsible drivers before we let them drive cars on public roads. I don't think we're in disagreement over some fundamental logical pathway to improvement. However, back to my original point: On this topic logic don't play, because history. (and a powerful, entrenched lobby that leverages this emotional topic using slippery-slope, fear-of-loss-of-identity arguments).