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Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. Mirrors, speedometer, battery gauge. CarPlay/android auto as an accessory.

Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. Mirrors, speedometer, battery gauge. CarPlay/android auto as an accessory. I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago
So basically we need a mass produced equivalent of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-with-eluminator-electric-crate-motor-shows-the-future-of-restomodding https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-... I'm on board.
- jdhn 4y ago
  I would trade in my Mustang for this and I'm not even a truck guy.
skykooler 4y ago
I was going to suggest the Bollinger B1, but it's gone from Bollinger's website so I don't know whether it even exists anymore.
- myself248 4y ago
  Yeah, they pivoted to commercial truck chassis. My guess is after the F150 lightning was announced, large fractions of their consumer market share basically stampeded over yonder. That's a shame, because as you've pointed out, it was a perfect balance of a modern EV powertrain with classic simple function. For the dozens of us who'd prioritize that above all else, it was a perfect fit, but I don't think we're big enough market.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
I have no idea why you're shouting at clouds about this in a discussion about a car targeting the mid-high luxury market. They're going after Model S and Mercedes EQS market share. The luxury market has gone toward using lots of screens. If you're not in the market for a $100,000 car, this has no effect on, or relevancy to, you. > I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this. A friend has a Kia Niro and bought it specifically because of how loaded it was with features and gadgets for the price. It has a veritable sea of buttons on the wheel and center console, and two screens. Come on, dude. If you want a basic EV, the Chevy Bolt is about the closest you'll likely get. With no options it'll come with very few "toys." The whole "why don't they make a very basic car" has been rehashed over and over here and elsewhere. There's no market. Most of the expense is in development, emissions, crash testing, and tooling - not tacking on bits and bobs. People want bits and bobs, which is why they pay lots of extra money for them. The whole "why touch screens" has been rehashed over and over as well. Touch screens are cheap to manufacture, can be heavily reused (Ford uses the same small handful of screens in a number of its vehicles for example), easily localized, and can be updated in functionality. Yes, they're terrible from a UX standpoint. Car companies don't care.
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  One day we'll have a thriving EV upgrade market. Then you can take your old dumb car and drive out with a modern EV.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    It already exists, but the way combustion cars are built is just completely opposed to how you build an EV. You end up with a really crappy EV (specifically, in range) that still costs $20k+ now. In the future maybe that'll be $10k, but that's still a LOT to stomach for something that is going to underperform a dedicated EV.
- travisporter 4y ago
  You’re right. I guess I’m just frustrated. Been waiting for an ev for four years. In my defense tho the niro screen is mostly for entertainment. I rented it for three days and only used screen mirroring/android car on it. I test drive the Tesla and I don’t think you could get away with not touching the screen on a drive
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  I don't want a luxury car and I don't want a very basic car. I want something that exactly replicates the functionality of my 24-year-old Range Rover. No laser-eye-surgery-bright screens, no touch panels, no always-connected-phones-home telematics, just four big squashy seats, a really loud stereo, and the capability to be just as happy flat out on the motorway as climbing up a trackless mountain, pulling a 3.5 tonne trailer. I don't give the tiniest amount of a shit about having the 0-60 time of a bomb going off. I never ever need to accelerate from a standstill to 60mph as fast as possible, and I can't imagine a situation outside of drag racing where I'd need to. I don't feel much of a need to ask Alexa to turn on the windscreen wipers. If you want to travel but not actually touch controls, take the train - a train ticket is far more of a Veblen good, ideal for a flash git.
fignews 4y ago
Our Fiat 500e comes pretty close to this. One attractive LCD for the dash and besides that no fuss. No nav (up to 2016), etc. Very raw driving experience. Paid 8k for mine.
dzhiurgis 4y ago
ID.1 probably going to be like that. The market for this is small and most people love smart features.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  It's just too bad the current assumption is that the ID.1 will never be marketed in the US. VW is currently given the impression that nothing smaller than the ID.4 will likely ship to US dealers, which is a huge shame. I'd be somewhat tempted by an ID.3 right now. I'm extremely envious right now of all the small, basic European and Asian EVs that currently have no chance of being purchasable in the US.
windowsrookie 4y ago
The Nissan Leaf is exactly this and has been available for 11 years.
- post_break 4y ago
  And the battery packs degrade super fast. That car has a ton of issues.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    It does have the worst battery degradation of all the EVs. Even with that, I’m very happy with mine (bought new in Dec 2014), but we have an ICE CR-V that we can use for any longer drives, making the LEAF excellent and our preference for around town driving.
    - post_break 4y ago
      That sounds like a great endorsement. The leaf EV, so good you'll need a second car.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        We have two adult drivers and two cars. That’s fairly typical, I think.
      - laputan_machine 4y ago
        For long drives of course you'll need an ICE car or be prepared to wait for charging. Come on. That's the norm for any EV right now.
        post_break 4y ago
        Long drives can be completed with electric cars now that they can charge much more quickly, something the Leaf cannot do.
cptskippy 4y ago
> Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. The drive/power train are incredibly expensive and manufacturers are looking for ways to cut costs. The incumbents might be able to do save money by reusing components out of other cars but the reality is that all the little switches, knobs, levers, and such cost money. What Tesla did to reduce cost in the 3/Y was omit all the custom interfaces and inherit tooling costs, replacing it all with what's basically an Intel Atom based Tablet you can get from Best Buy for $100. This allowed them to use more premium materials to trim out the interior. Until they can bring down battery costs, we're probably going to see more of this.
sokoloff 4y ago
The electric Smarts fit this bill. Possibly related, they’re no longer for sale new in the US.
r00fus 4y ago
My Ford Focus 2017 EV is awesome - a snappy sleeper vehicle that looks normal. 110mi range is usable since it supports DC Fast. CarPlay works great. Of course Ford cancelled the line in 2019.
- jseliger 4y ago
  Reminds me of https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/05/want-a-small-affordable-ev-tough-luck-if-you-live-in-the-usa/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/05/want-a-small-affordable...
WorldMaker 4y ago
The Dacia Spring in Europe seems really interesting on this front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vZWMcINhlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vZWMcINhlw Unlikely to see a US relative anytime soon though.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
This is the thing that puts me off Teslas (not that I'd waste 80 grand on a car anyway). How the hell are you meant to drive them at night with a massive floodlight shining in your face?
- fujidust 4y ago
  The interior screens dim. They are better than many ICE vehicles in this regard.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    They are still insanely bright, and huge. It's impossible to see outside of the car with them.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago

So basically we need a mass produced equivalent of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-with-eluminator-electric-crate-motor-shows-the-future-of-restomodding https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-... I'm on board.

jdhn 4y ago
I would trade in my Mustang for this and I'm not even a truck guy.

skykooler 4y ago

I was going to suggest the Bollinger B1, but it's gone from Bollinger's website so I don't know whether it even exists anymore.

myself248 4y ago
Yeah, they pivoted to commercial truck chassis. My guess is after the F150 lightning was announced, large fractions of their consumer market share basically stampeded over yonder. That's a shame, because as you've pointed out, it was a perfect balance of a modern EV powertrain with classic simple function. For the dozens of us who'd prioritize that above all else, it was a perfect fit, but I don't think we're big enough market.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

I have no idea why you're shouting at clouds about this in a discussion about a car targeting the mid-high luxury market. They're going after Model S and Mercedes EQS market share. The luxury market has gone toward using lots of screens. If you're not in the market for a $100,000 car, this has no effect on, or relevancy to, you. > I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this. A friend has a Kia Niro and bought it specifically because of how loaded it was with features and gadgets for the price. It has a veritable sea of buttons on the wheel and center console, and two screens. Come on, dude. If you want a basic EV, the Chevy Bolt is about the closest you'll likely get. With no options it'll come with very few "toys." The whole "why don't they make a very basic car" has been rehashed over and over here and elsewhere. There's no market. Most of the expense is in development, emissions, crash testing, and tooling - not tacking on bits and bobs. People want bits and bobs, which is why they pay lots of extra money for them. The whole "why touch screens" has been rehashed over and over as well. Touch screens are cheap to manufacture, can be heavily reused (Ford uses the same small handful of screens in a number of its vehicles for example), easily localized, and can be updated in functionality. Yes, they're terrible from a UX standpoint. Car companies don't care.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago
One day we'll have a thriving EV upgrade market. Then you can take your old dumb car and drive out with a modern EV.
- Kirby64 4y ago
  It already exists, but the way combustion cars are built is just completely opposed to how you build an EV. You end up with a really crappy EV (specifically, in range) that still costs $20k+ now. In the future maybe that'll be $10k, but that's still a LOT to stomach for something that is going to underperform a dedicated EV.
travisporter 4y ago
You’re right. I guess I’m just frustrated. Been waiting for an ev for four years. In my defense tho the niro screen is mostly for entertainment. I rented it for three days and only used screen mirroring/android car on it. I test drive the Tesla and I don’t think you could get away with not touching the screen on a drive
Gordonjcp 4y ago
I don't want a luxury car and I don't want a very basic car. I want something that exactly replicates the functionality of my 24-year-old Range Rover. No laser-eye-surgery-bright screens, no touch panels, no always-connected-phones-home telematics, just four big squashy seats, a really loud stereo, and the capability to be just as happy flat out on the motorway as climbing up a trackless mountain, pulling a 3.5 tonne trailer. I don't give the tiniest amount of a shit about having the 0-60 time of a bomb going off. I never ever need to accelerate from a standstill to 60mph as fast as possible, and I can't imagine a situation outside of drag racing where I'd need to. I don't feel much of a need to ask Alexa to turn on the windscreen wipers. If you want to travel but not actually touch controls, take the train - a train ticket is far more of a Veblen good, ideal for a flash git.

fignews 4y ago

Our Fiat 500e comes pretty close to this. One attractive LCD for the dash and besides that no fuss. No nav (up to 2016), etc. Very raw driving experience. Paid 8k for mine.

dzhiurgis 4y ago

ID.1 probably going to be like that. The market for this is small and most people love smart features.

WorldMaker 4y ago
It's just too bad the current assumption is that the ID.1 will never be marketed in the US. VW is currently given the impression that nothing smaller than the ID.4 will likely ship to US dealers, which is a huge shame. I'd be somewhat tempted by an ID.3 right now. I'm extremely envious right now of all the small, basic European and Asian EVs that currently have no chance of being purchasable in the US.

windowsrookie 4y ago

The Nissan Leaf is exactly this and has been available for 11 years.

post_break 4y ago
And the battery packs degrade super fast. That car has a ton of issues.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  It does have the worst battery degradation of all the EVs. Even with that, I’m very happy with mine (bought new in Dec 2014), but we have an ICE CR-V that we can use for any longer drives, making the LEAF excellent and our preference for around town driving.
  - post_break 4y ago
    That sounds like a great endorsement. The leaf EV, so good you'll need a second car.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      We have two adult drivers and two cars. That’s fairly typical, I think.
    - laputan_machine 4y ago
      For long drives of course you'll need an ICE car or be prepared to wait for charging. Come on. That's the norm for any EV right now.
      - post_break 4y ago
        Long drives can be completed with electric cars now that they can charge much more quickly, something the Leaf cannot do.

cptskippy 4y ago

> Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. The drive/power train are incredibly expensive and manufacturers are looking for ways to cut costs. The incumbents might be able to do save money by reusing components out of other cars but the reality is that all the little switches, knobs, levers, and such cost money. What Tesla did to reduce cost in the 3/Y was omit all the custom interfaces and inherit tooling costs, replacing it all with what's basically an Intel Atom based Tablet you can get from Best Buy for $100. This allowed them to use more premium materials to trim out the interior. Until they can bring down battery costs, we're probably going to see more of this.

sokoloff 4y ago

The electric Smarts fit this bill. Possibly related, they’re no longer for sale new in the US.

r00fus 4y ago

My Ford Focus 2017 EV is awesome - a snappy sleeper vehicle that looks normal. 110mi range is usable since it supports DC Fast. CarPlay works great. Of course Ford cancelled the line in 2019.

jseliger 4y ago
Reminds me of https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/05/want-a-small-affordable-ev-tough-luck-if-you-live-in-the-usa/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/05/want-a-small-affordable...

WorldMaker 4y ago

The Dacia Spring in Europe seems really interesting on this front: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vZWMcINhlw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vZWMcINhlw Unlikely to see a US relative anytime soon though.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

This is the thing that puts me off Teslas (not that I'd waste 80 grand on a car anyway). How the hell are you meant to drive them at night with a massive floodlight shining in your face?

fujidust 4y ago
The interior screens dim. They are better than many ICE vehicles in this regard.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  They are still insanely bright, and huge. It's impossible to see outside of the car with them.