8 ms·

I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. I've had my eyes on the Lucid A

I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. I've had my eyes on the Lucid Air Touring as my next car, but stuff like this doesn't instill confidence. The absolute disaster that is Tesla's build quality and servicing is one of the reasons I'm switching in the first place! The whole EV market is a disaster right now. If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. I hate it.

reducesuffering 4y ago
> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups Just a year ago people were getting GM/Chevy Bolt's out the door for $19k - $25k. Granted, those did have battery recalls. Might be worse price-wise now though as it looks like even 2 years old ones are selling for more than that on my local craiglist. https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_premier_post_your_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_pr... https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point_2020_lt_for_25k_out_the_door/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point...
- sebmellen 4y ago
  My father was once a car dealer and is a pro Long-Island style negotiator — he walked out the door with a fully loaded Bolt for 22k in CA, about a year ago. The Chevy Bolt and Chevy Spark are great cars.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    I just sat my laptop on the counter and fact checked what they told me in real time, told them what I’d pay, and got a stellar deal.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    I got a Gen 2 Volt in late 2020 for $19k, low mileage and top trim. Great car that hasn't given me any trouble and more than takes care of my commute with its battery.
- nr2x 4y ago
  I love driving my 22 Bolt but the battery is software capped at 80% capacity as a temporary fix and they cannot tell when I’ll get a new battery. So I’d say get a Nissan Leaf and avoid Bolt until GM gets their shit together.
  - spear 4y ago
    A Bolt capped at 80% still has way more range than a Leaf and not much less range than a Leaf Plus.
    - nr2x 4y ago
      The low end Leaf costs much less, and I bought the Bolt for the greater range, which I don’t have now. The extended range Leaf is what is I’d buy today. As an owner of a Bolt I think I have a fairly well informed opinion.
  - chipsa 4y ago
    Dealers can't sell new cars under recall. If they can sell you a new one, it's got a new battery and doesn't have the capacity cap.
pryelluw 4y ago
I just bought a new Camry hybrid. Gives me 60+ total mpg without any fuss. I’m learning how to drive it to maximize electric use. My first pick was a Prius prime but those were on a huge back order. Having a 25 mile electric range is perfect for us.
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  A Camry is not an EV and I have no interest in burning fossils ever again. Edit: I can't reply to comments under this, I don't know why, so let me just add here: Yes, I know that the manufacture of any vehicle produces unwanted byproducts. That doesn't mean they're all equally bad. My electricity comes from completely renewable sources, and none of my money goes to the oil industry. Those issues are important to me. I don't need lecturing on how I've got it all wrong.
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    Unfortunately many fossils will be burnt in the production of any EV, the shipping of it, and (most likely) the fuel used to power it. Don’t get me wrong, EVs are great (my parents own two that run off-grid on solar), but the absolutist mentality of a lot of the EV community about “fossil fuels” is counterproductive. We should be encouraging as many realistic countermeasures as we can — priuses, EVs, hydrogen, hybrids, whatever! The less fossil fuels being burned the better!!!
    - pengaru 4y ago
      It's not exactly unreasonable to be absolutist about the fossil fuel burners you actually have control over, and the technology really has gotten to where you no longer need to ever use things like gas powered lawn mowers weed wackers chain saws cars motorcycles etc. It's not harmful to choose in electric form in an absolutist manner, if you must have those things at all.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Hydrogen cars will require fossil fuels to be manufactured, same with hybrids. EVs have a smaller carbon footprint than both over their lifetime. No duh, current manufacturing is done with fossil fuels. Everybody knows that. So what's the point of a comment like this, other than to downplay how important EVs are going to be at solving the climate crisis?
uejfiweun 4y ago
The whole entire car market is a disaster. Used car prices are still insane and non-EV dealer markups are still insane. Moreover I've heard anecdotal reports of serious quality issues with most cars that were released during the pandemic. It really sucks.
rwmurrayVT 4y ago
The company I worked for just released a new non-contact scanner with accuracy similar to a laser tracker. The only potential automotive companies that have expressed interest so far are EV only.
assttoasstmgr 4y ago
Based on your comments, it sounds like you might be in the market for a Homer by Powell Motors.
- Sparkle-san 4y ago
  Does it have Rack and Peanut steering?
- tclancy 4y ago
  You gotta have excellent personal hygiene for one of those!
- olyjohn 4y ago
  I mean, the Hummer EV is basically the Canyonero.
roseway4 4y ago
I’m surprised Polestar hasn’t been mentioned. While not mainstream—yet—the PS2 is a great car. We definitely had teething issues (software mostly) with the Launch Edition, but Polestar’s Android Automative implementation has got more solid in the last year.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Polestar and Volvo both have excellent EVs. Audi's e-tron models, ditto. The EQS, same. BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. Hyundai's Ioniq 5, so far getting rave reviews from owners that match the press. The Ford Mach-E is having a bit of teething issues reportedly (cooling related, I think?) but I see them all over the place. The Ford Lightning has sold out several years worth of production. GM has the Ultium platform in production (Hummer) which will soon serve as the base for a number of models. The Equinox EV is in testing and everyone's guess is that they will sell better than hotcakes unless GM manages to fuck it up. Hopefully they call all the "fuck it up" out of their system with the Bolt. VW right now is trailing the pack. The IQ4 by all accounts was a huge swing and a miss, which is inexcusable coming from one of the world's largest car companies. They tried to "re-imagine" "the car" on a basic level and failed miserably. For example: it automatically turns on/off. No power/start switch. Just get in, use the "gear" selector, and drive. Ditto for stoping. Sounds great, right? Except if you come out of the driver's seat for even a second (as is common when backing up) the car thinks you're "leaving" and almost immediately shuts itself off. Then they had to go and infantilize the climate control system. I wish I were joking when you tap a "I'm cold" button or "I can't see out the windshield" to get things to happen. Apparently VW's IQ team thinks people are absolute imbeciles.
  - cobalt 4y ago
    blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)
    - bdcravens 4y ago
danans 4y ago
VW and Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered ID.4 and Mach-e, but you need to order and wait for delivery which takes up to 9 months right now. The cars are the lot today available to buy (often abandoned pre-orders but also dealer orders) are being marked up.
- kjksf 4y ago
  > Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered Mach-e That's, like, the opposite of truth. In other words: a lie. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealerships-put-unbelievable-markup-on-mach-e-once-again-proves-tesla-direct-sales-wins https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealersh... Majority of dealerships will always act in their self-interest and therefore heavily mark-up cars that are in demand. Only dealership-free new entrants like Tesla / Rivian / Lucid have a single, no-haggling price.
  - danans 4y ago
    That's for cars on the lot. Your article says nothing about pre-ordered vehicles. The ID.4 I ordered is MSRP because ordered it months ago. Similar for a pre-ordered Mach E from people I know who have bought them that way lately. The dealer markup for cars on lot sucks, that much I agree with, and that's down to the power of traditional dealerships and and of course supply and demand.
  - macintux 4y ago
    It's generally unwise, and explicitly against the guidelines on this site, to call someone a liar.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    Ford cracked down on that practice months ago. (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6-billion-dealer-markups https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6..., https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracking-down-on-dealers-for-inflating-prices/ar-AATDNaY?ocid=FinanceShimLayer https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracki...)
- 4y ago
xiphias2 4y ago
EVs are not yet competitive with gas cars, as battery manufacturing needs more ramp up / development to mature. Every company is forced to take shortcuts with EVs right now, and it will be like this for a few years, but I expect the shortcuts to decrease over time.
binkHN 4y ago
> I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. Why?
kposehn 4y ago
I can vouch for the Lucid being excellent and I'd say the touring is the pick of the range. If you want to switch away from Tesla it is an excellent option, as is the Polestar (if you don't need the same mix of range/performance/space as the Lucid).
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. Tesla has plenty of things about them to criticize, but one thing they did well was the buying experience. They cut out all the bullshit that dealers put you through. It took me five minutes to purchase my car online. When delivery day came, just had to sign a couple DMV forms, add my phone as a key, and I was done. No bullshit upselling, no haggling on the price, just get online, fill out the forms, and done.
erulabs 4y ago
Anxiety, hate, “disaster”... it’s a 50k luxury item. People who “hate” iPhones evoke the same response from me: being bored at your rich toys is gross. I also own a Tesla and it’s the best car I’ve ever driven. Was it worth the money? God no, I’m going back to buying Hondas like I used to, but I’m certainly not filled with disgust over what the vast majority of humans would consider an insane luxury. Would I prioritize phone support a bit more if I was the CEO? Sure... but I'm not seething over it. You have to be pretty unaware of how difficult it is to accomplish almost anything to be so full of disgust at so many doing so much.

reducesuffering 4y ago

> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups Just a year ago people were getting GM/Chevy Bolt's out the door for $19k - $25k. Granted, those did have battery recalls. Might be worse price-wise now though as it looks like even 2 years old ones are selling for more than that on my local craiglist. https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_premier_post_your_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_pr... https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point_2020_lt_for_25k_out_the_door/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point...

sebmellen 4y ago
My father was once a car dealer and is a pro Long-Island style negotiator — he walked out the door with a fully loaded Bolt for 22k in CA, about a year ago. The Chevy Bolt and Chevy Spark are great cars.
- nr2x 4y ago
  I just sat my laptop on the counter and fact checked what they told me in real time, told them what I’d pay, and got a stellar deal.
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  I got a Gen 2 Volt in late 2020 for $19k, low mileage and top trim. Great car that hasn't given me any trouble and more than takes care of my commute with its battery.
nr2x 4y ago
I love driving my 22 Bolt but the battery is software capped at 80% capacity as a temporary fix and they cannot tell when I’ll get a new battery. So I’d say get a Nissan Leaf and avoid Bolt until GM gets their shit together.
- spear 4y ago
  A Bolt capped at 80% still has way more range than a Leaf and not much less range than a Leaf Plus.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    The low end Leaf costs much less, and I bought the Bolt for the greater range, which I don’t have now. The extended range Leaf is what is I’d buy today. As an owner of a Bolt I think I have a fairly well informed opinion.
- chipsa 4y ago
  Dealers can't sell new cars under recall. If they can sell you a new one, it's got a new battery and doesn't have the capacity cap.

pryelluw 4y ago

I just bought a new Camry hybrid. Gives me 60+ total mpg without any fuss. I’m learning how to drive it to maximize electric use. My first pick was a Prius prime but those were on a huge back order. Having a 25 mile electric range is perfect for us.

LeoPanthera 4y ago
A Camry is not an EV and I have no interest in burning fossils ever again. Edit: I can't reply to comments under this, I don't know why, so let me just add here: Yes, I know that the manufacture of any vehicle produces unwanted byproducts. That doesn't mean they're all equally bad. My electricity comes from completely renewable sources, and none of my money goes to the oil industry. Those issues are important to me. I don't need lecturing on how I've got it all wrong.
- sebmellen 4y ago
  Unfortunately many fossils will be burnt in the production of any EV, the shipping of it, and (most likely) the fuel used to power it. Don’t get me wrong, EVs are great (my parents own two that run off-grid on solar), but the absolutist mentality of a lot of the EV community about “fossil fuels” is counterproductive. We should be encouraging as many realistic countermeasures as we can — priuses, EVs, hydrogen, hybrids, whatever! The less fossil fuels being burned the better!!!
  - pengaru 4y ago
    It's not exactly unreasonable to be absolutist about the fossil fuel burners you actually have control over, and the technology really has gotten to where you no longer need to ever use things like gas powered lawn mowers weed wackers chain saws cars motorcycles etc. It's not harmful to choose in electric form in an absolutist manner, if you must have those things at all.
  - dymk 4y ago
    Hydrogen cars will require fossil fuels to be manufactured, same with hybrids. EVs have a smaller carbon footprint than both over their lifetime. No duh, current manufacturing is done with fossil fuels. Everybody knows that. So what's the point of a comment like this, other than to downplay how important EVs are going to be at solving the climate crisis?

uejfiweun 4y ago

The whole entire car market is a disaster. Used car prices are still insane and non-EV dealer markups are still insane. Moreover I've heard anecdotal reports of serious quality issues with most cars that were released during the pandemic. It really sucks.

rwmurrayVT 4y ago

The company I worked for just released a new non-contact scanner with accuracy similar to a laser tracker. The only potential automotive companies that have expressed interest so far are EV only.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago

Based on your comments, it sounds like you might be in the market for a Homer by Powell Motors.

Sparkle-san 4y ago
Does it have Rack and Peanut steering?
tclancy 4y ago
You gotta have excellent personal hygiene for one of those!
olyjohn 4y ago
I mean, the Hummer EV is basically the Canyonero.

roseway4 4y ago

I’m surprised Polestar hasn’t been mentioned. While not mainstream—yet—the PS2 is a great car. We definitely had teething issues (software mostly) with the Launch Edition, but Polestar’s Android Automative implementation has got more solid in the last year.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Polestar and Volvo both have excellent EVs. Audi's e-tron models, ditto. The EQS, same. BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. Hyundai's Ioniq 5, so far getting rave reviews from owners that match the press. The Ford Mach-E is having a bit of teething issues reportedly (cooling related, I think?) but I see them all over the place. The Ford Lightning has sold out several years worth of production. GM has the Ultium platform in production (Hummer) which will soon serve as the base for a number of models. The Equinox EV is in testing and everyone's guess is that they will sell better than hotcakes unless GM manages to fuck it up. Hopefully they call all the "fuck it up" out of their system with the Bolt. VW right now is trailing the pack. The IQ4 by all accounts was a huge swing and a miss, which is inexcusable coming from one of the world's largest car companies. They tried to "re-imagine" "the car" on a basic level and failed miserably. For example: it automatically turns on/off. No power/start switch. Just get in, use the "gear" selector, and drive. Ditto for stoping. Sounds great, right? Except if you come out of the driver's seat for even a second (as is common when backing up) the car thinks you're "leaving" and almost immediately shuts itself off. Then they had to go and infantilize the climate control system. I wish I were joking when you tap a "I'm cold" button or "I can't see out the windshield" to get things to happen. Apparently VW's IQ team thinks people are absolute imbeciles.
- cobalt 4y ago
  blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)
  - bdcravens 4y ago

danans 4y ago

VW and Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered ID.4 and Mach-e, but you need to order and wait for delivery which takes up to 9 months right now. The cars are the lot today available to buy (often abandoned pre-orders but also dealer orders) are being marked up.

kjksf 4y ago
> Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered Mach-e That's, like, the opposite of truth. In other words: a lie. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealerships-put-unbelievable-markup-on-mach-e-once-again-proves-tesla-direct-sales-wins https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealersh... Majority of dealerships will always act in their self-interest and therefore heavily mark-up cars that are in demand. Only dealership-free new entrants like Tesla / Rivian / Lucid have a single, no-haggling price.
- danans 4y ago
  That's for cars on the lot. Your article says nothing about pre-ordered vehicles. The ID.4 I ordered is MSRP because ordered it months ago. Similar for a pre-ordered Mach E from people I know who have bought them that way lately. The dealer markup for cars on lot sucks, that much I agree with, and that's down to the power of traditional dealerships and and of course supply and demand.
- macintux 4y ago
  It's generally unwise, and explicitly against the guidelines on this site, to call someone a liar.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Ford cracked down on that practice months ago. (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6-billion-dealer-markups https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6..., https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracking-down-on-dealers-for-inflating-prices/ar-AATDNaY?ocid=FinanceShimLayer https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracki...)
4y ago

xiphias2 4y ago

EVs are not yet competitive with gas cars, as battery manufacturing needs more ramp up / development to mature. Every company is forced to take shortcuts with EVs right now, and it will be like this for a few years, but I expect the shortcuts to decrease over time.

binkHN 4y ago

> I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. Why?

kposehn 4y ago

I can vouch for the Lucid being excellent and I'd say the touring is the pick of the range. If you want to switch away from Tesla it is an excellent option, as is the Polestar (if you don't need the same mix of range/performance/space as the Lucid).

Sohcahtoa82 4y ago

> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. Tesla has plenty of things about them to criticize, but one thing they did well was the buying experience. They cut out all the bullshit that dealers put you through. It took me five minutes to purchase my car online. When delivery day came, just had to sign a couple DMV forms, add my phone as a key, and I was done. No bullshit upselling, no haggling on the price, just get online, fill out the forms, and done.

erulabs 4y ago

Anxiety, hate, “disaster”... it’s a 50k luxury item. People who “hate” iPhones evoke the same response from me: being bored at your rich toys is gross. I also own a Tesla and it’s the best car I’ve ever driven. Was it worth the money? God no, I’m going back to buying Hondas like I used to, but I’m certainly not filled with disgust over what the vast majority of humans would consider an insane luxury. Would I prioritize phone support a bit more if I was the CEO? Sure... but I'm not seething over it. You have to be pretty unaware of how difficult it is to accomplish almost anything to be so full of disgust at so many doing so much.