6 ms·

> If anything, there is a lack of jury trials - the majority of cases end in pleas. People take pleas because the jury system is broken and if convicted you’ll

> If anything, there is a lack of jury trials - the majority of cases end in pleas. People take pleas because the jury system is broken and if convicted you’ll get far more time. As far as alternative? Jury’s are fine. The problem is the Supreme Court’s holding from a century back that a non-unanimous verdict is a mistrial and res judicata (or double jeopardy) is not triggered. As the other poster pointed out, some jurisdictions allow an aquital with less than 12. But, the problem is this: you are presumed innocent and the State should have one chance to prove you guilty. If the State blows it, it should be over. The US fundamentally changed this. If the State can’t convince 12 of your peers that you’re guilty, there is obviously a ‘reasonable doubt.’ But that’s all lip-service… doesn’t mean anything any more. You can prosecute a person a dozen times, with 90% of the jurors (collectively) finding not-guilty, and the person could still be convicted if the last set of jurors ruled 12-0 in favor of the state. It’s a joke.

legitster 4y ago
But mistrials are pretty dang rare - I don't think this is a reasonable concern.
- guiambros 4y ago
  Not a surprise, given 90-95% of cases end in a plea bargain [1]. Most defendants (even innocent ones) would rather give in to the threats of prosecutors and accept a guaranteed lower sentence than risk a much harsher one in trial [2]. So yeah, you have to have a really strong conviction your case will stand in court to reject a plea deal and try your odds in trial. IMO, the system is made to be fair at the surface level, but it's utterly broken when you consider second-order consequences. The incentives are tilted towards prosecutors being incentivized for putting people in jail no matter what (and jail systems profiting from it). [1] https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/media/document/PleaBargainingResearchSummary.pdf https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/media/docu... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8

legitster 4y ago

But mistrials are pretty dang rare - I don't think this is a reasonable concern.

guiambros 4y ago
Not a surprise, given 90-95% of cases end in a plea bargain [1]. Most defendants (even innocent ones) would rather give in to the threats of prosecutors and accept a guaranteed lower sentence than risk a much harsher one in trial [2]. So yeah, you have to have a really strong conviction your case will stand in court to reject a plea deal and try your odds in trial. IMO, the system is made to be fair at the surface level, but it's utterly broken when you consider second-order consequences. The incentives are tilted towards prosecutors being incentivized for putting people in jail no matter what (and jail systems profiting from it). [1] https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/media/document/PleaBargainingResearchSummary.pdf https://bja.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh186/files/media/docu... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krfcq5pF8u8