11 ms·

Lucid recalls all of its 2022 Air EVs

81 points by lxm 4y ago

ModernMech 4y ago
"No one gets it on the first try" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW5cB2UWTX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW5cB2UWTX0
LeoPanthera 4y ago
I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. I've had my eyes on the Lucid Air Touring as my next car, but stuff like this doesn't instill confidence. The absolute disaster that is Tesla's build quality and servicing is one of the reasons I'm switching in the first place! The whole EV market is a disaster right now. If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. I hate it.
- reducesuffering 4y ago
  > If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups Just a year ago people were getting GM/Chevy Bolt's out the door for $19k - $25k. Granted, those did have battery recalls. Might be worse price-wise now though as it looks like even 2 years old ones are selling for more than that on my local craiglist. https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_premier_post_your_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_pr... https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point_2020_lt_for_25k_out_the_door/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point...
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    My father was once a car dealer and is a pro Long-Island style negotiator — he walked out the door with a fully loaded Bolt for 22k in CA, about a year ago. The Chevy Bolt and Chevy Spark are great cars.
    - nr2x 4y ago
      I just sat my laptop on the counter and fact checked what they told me in real time, told them what I’d pay, and got a stellar deal.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      I got a Gen 2 Volt in late 2020 for $19k, low mileage and top trim. Great car that hasn't given me any trouble and more than takes care of my commute with its battery.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    I love driving my 22 Bolt but the battery is software capped at 80% capacity as a temporary fix and they cannot tell when I’ll get a new battery. So I’d say get a Nissan Leaf and avoid Bolt until GM gets their shit together.
    - spear 4y ago
      A Bolt capped at 80% still has way more range than a Leaf and not much less range than a Leaf Plus.
      - nr2x 4y ago
        The low end Leaf costs much less, and I bought the Bolt for the greater range, which I don’t have now. The extended range Leaf is what is I’d buy today. As an owner of a Bolt I think I have a fairly well informed opinion.
    - chipsa 4y ago
      Dealers can't sell new cars under recall. If they can sell you a new one, it's got a new battery and doesn't have the capacity cap.
- pryelluw 4y ago
  I just bought a new Camry hybrid. Gives me 60+ total mpg without any fuss. I’m learning how to drive it to maximize electric use. My first pick was a Prius prime but those were on a huge back order. Having a 25 mile electric range is perfect for us.
  - LeoPanthera 4y ago
    A Camry is not an EV and I have no interest in burning fossils ever again. Edit: I can't reply to comments under this, I don't know why, so let me just add here: Yes, I know that the manufacture of any vehicle produces unwanted byproducts. That doesn't mean they're all equally bad. My electricity comes from completely renewable sources, and none of my money goes to the oil industry. Those issues are important to me. I don't need lecturing on how I've got it all wrong.
    - sebmellen 4y ago
      Unfortunately many fossils will be burnt in the production of any EV, the shipping of it, and (most likely) the fuel used to power it. Don’t get me wrong, EVs are great (my parents own two that run off-grid on solar), but the absolutist mentality of a lot of the EV community about “fossil fuels” is counterproductive. We should be encouraging as many realistic countermeasures as we can — priuses, EVs, hydrogen, hybrids, whatever! The less fossil fuels being burned the better!!!
      - pengaru 4y ago
        It's not exactly unreasonable to be absolutist about the fossil fuel burners you actually have control over, and the technology really has gotten to where you no longer need to ever use things like gas powered lawn mowers weed wackers chain saws cars motorcycles etc. It's not harmful to choose in electric form in an absolutist manner, if you must have those things at all.
      - dymk 4y ago
        Hydrogen cars will require fossil fuels to be manufactured, same with hybrids. EVs have a smaller carbon footprint than both over their lifetime. No duh, current manufacturing is done with fossil fuels. Everybody knows that. So what's the point of a comment like this, other than to downplay how important EVs are going to be at solving the climate crisis?
- uejfiweun 4y ago
  The whole entire car market is a disaster. Used car prices are still insane and non-EV dealer markups are still insane. Moreover I've heard anecdotal reports of serious quality issues with most cars that were released during the pandemic. It really sucks.
- rwmurrayVT 4y ago
  The company I worked for just released a new non-contact scanner with accuracy similar to a laser tracker. The only potential automotive companies that have expressed interest so far are EV only.
- assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  Based on your comments, it sounds like you might be in the market for a Homer by Powell Motors.
  - Sparkle-san 4y ago
    Does it have Rack and Peanut steering?
  - tclancy 4y ago
    You gotta have excellent personal hygiene for one of those!
  - olyjohn 4y ago
    I mean, the Hummer EV is basically the Canyonero.
- roseway4 4y ago
  I’m surprised Polestar hasn’t been mentioned. While not mainstream—yet—the PS2 is a great car. We definitely had teething issues (software mostly) with the Launch Edition, but Polestar’s Android Automative implementation has got more solid in the last year.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    Polestar and Volvo both have excellent EVs. Audi's e-tron models, ditto. The EQS, same. BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. Hyundai's Ioniq 5, so far getting rave reviews from owners that match the press. The Ford Mach-E is having a bit of teething issues reportedly (cooling related, I think?) but I see them all over the place. The Ford Lightning has sold out several years worth of production. GM has the Ultium platform in production (Hummer) which will soon serve as the base for a number of models. The Equinox EV is in testing and everyone's guess is that they will sell better than hotcakes unless GM manages to fuck it up. Hopefully they call all the "fuck it up" out of their system with the Bolt. VW right now is trailing the pack. The IQ4 by all accounts was a huge swing and a miss, which is inexcusable coming from one of the world's largest car companies. They tried to "re-imagine" "the car" on a basic level and failed miserably. For example: it automatically turns on/off. No power/start switch. Just get in, use the "gear" selector, and drive. Ditto for stoping. Sounds great, right? Except if you come out of the driver's seat for even a second (as is common when backing up) the car thinks you're "leaving" and almost immediately shuts itself off. Then they had to go and infantilize the climate control system. I wish I were joking when you tap a "I'm cold" button or "I can't see out the windshield" to get things to happen. Apparently VW's IQ team thinks people are absolute imbeciles.
    - cobalt 4y ago
      blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)
      - bdcravens 4y ago
- danans 4y ago
  VW and Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered ID.4 and Mach-e, but you need to order and wait for delivery which takes up to 9 months right now. The cars are the lot today available to buy (often abandoned pre-orders but also dealer orders) are being marked up.
  - kjksf 4y ago
    > Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered Mach-e That's, like, the opposite of truth. In other words: a lie. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealerships-put-unbelievable-markup-on-mach-e-once-again-proves-tesla-direct-sales-wins https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealersh... Majority of dealerships will always act in their self-interest and therefore heavily mark-up cars that are in demand. Only dealership-free new entrants like Tesla / Rivian / Lucid have a single, no-haggling price.
    - danans 4y ago
      That's for cars on the lot. Your article says nothing about pre-ordered vehicles. The ID.4 I ordered is MSRP because ordered it months ago. Similar for a pre-ordered Mach E from people I know who have bought them that way lately. The dealer markup for cars on lot sucks, that much I agree with, and that's down to the power of traditional dealerships and and of course supply and demand.
    - macintux 4y ago
      It's generally unwise, and explicitly against the guidelines on this site, to call someone a liar.
    - gamblor956 4y ago
      Ford cracked down on that practice months ago. (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6-billion-dealer-markups https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6..., https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracking-down-on-dealers-for-inflating-prices/ar-AATDNaY?ocid=FinanceShimLayer https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracki...)
  - 4y ago
- xiphias2 4y ago
  EVs are not yet competitive with gas cars, as battery manufacturing needs more ramp up / development to mature. Every company is forced to take shortcuts with EVs right now, and it will be like this for a few years, but I expect the shortcuts to decrease over time.
- binkHN 4y ago
  > I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. Why?
- kposehn 4y ago
  I can vouch for the Lucid being excellent and I'd say the touring is the pick of the range. If you want to switch away from Tesla it is an excellent option, as is the Polestar (if you don't need the same mix of range/performance/space as the Lucid).
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  > If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. Tesla has plenty of things about them to criticize, but one thing they did well was the buying experience. They cut out all the bullshit that dealers put you through. It took me five minutes to purchase my car online. When delivery day came, just had to sign a couple DMV forms, add my phone as a key, and I was done. No bullshit upselling, no haggling on the price, just get online, fill out the forms, and done.
- erulabs 4y ago
  Anxiety, hate, “disaster”... it’s a 50k luxury item. People who “hate” iPhones evoke the same response from me: being bored at your rich toys is gross. I also own a Tesla and it’s the best car I’ve ever driven. Was it worth the money? God no, I’m going back to buying Hondas like I used to, but I’m certainly not filled with disgust over what the vast majority of humans would consider an insane luxury. Would I prioritize phone support a bit more if I was the CEO? Sure... but I'm not seething over it. You have to be pretty unaware of how difficult it is to accomplish almost anything to be so full of disgust at so many doing so much.
waiseristy 4y ago
Not surprising, wiring harnesses are incredibly difficult. The big OEM's still have issues with them. Also title is wrong, there is an update at the bottom of the article : > The recall applies to 1,117 vehicles that have been delivered to customers, and it is estimated that the defect is present on 1% of cars
- macintux 4y ago
  The title is accurate: they’re all being recalled, but they estimate only 1% have the defect.
  - ovi256 4y ago
    The fact they don't know which ones have the defect suggests their configuration management isn't great yet. If it was they should be able to recall just the affected cars. That will help not pay the cost of recalling 100000s of cars when they get to mass production.
  - waiseristy 4y ago
    Oh whoops, should have realized that they have only shipped ~1k cars
- sp332 4y ago
  I wonder why the statement from Lucid conflicts with the math in the third paragraph.
Yhippa 4y ago
Move fast and break things?
- xeromal 4y ago
  I don't think it's feasible to build something as large as a new car manufacturer and not have issues. They're too huge. It's like trying to recreate a search engine from scratch and not have bugs while also having a limited runway to hit critical mass and not go bankrupt.
travisporter 4y ago
Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. Mirrors, speedometer, battery gauge. CarPlay/android auto as an accessory. I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this.
- assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  So basically we need a mass produced equivalent of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-with-eluminator-electric-crate-motor-shows-the-future-of-restomodding https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-... I'm on board.
  - jdhn 4y ago
    I would trade in my Mustang for this and I'm not even a truck guy.
- skykooler 4y ago
  I was going to suggest the Bollinger B1, but it's gone from Bollinger's website so I don't know whether it even exists anymore.
  - myself248 4y ago
    Yeah, they pivoted to commercial truck chassis. My guess is after the F150 lightning was announced, large fractions of their consumer market share basically stampeded over yonder. That's a shame, because as you've pointed out, it was a perfect balance of a modern EV powertrain with classic simple function. For the dozens of us who'd prioritize that above all else, it was a perfect fit, but I don't think we're big enough market.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  I have no idea why you're shouting at clouds about this in a discussion about a car targeting the mid-high luxury market. They're going after Model S and Mercedes EQS market share. The luxury market has gone toward using lots of screens. If you're not in the market for a $100,000 car, this has no effect on, or relevancy to, you. > I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this. A friend has a Kia Niro and bought it specifically because of how loaded it was with features and gadgets for the price. It has a veritable sea of buttons on the wheel and center console, and two screens. Come on, dude. If you want a basic EV, the Chevy Bolt is about the closest you'll likely get. With no options it'll come with very few "toys." The whole "why don't they make a very basic car" has been rehashed over and over here and elsewhere. There's no market. Most of the expense is in development, emissions, crash testing, and tooling - not tacking on bits and bobs. People want bits and bobs, which is why they pay lots of extra money for them. The whole "why touch screens" has been rehashed over and over as well. Touch screens are cheap to manufacture, can be heavily reused (Ford uses the same small handful of screens in a number of its vehicles for example), easily localized, and can be updated in functionality. Yes, they're terrible from a UX standpoint. Car companies don't care.
steveBK123 4y ago
It’s unfortunate since Lucid was supposed to be “Tesla, but with adults in the room” and so far.. this is actually their second full production recall. A few months ago they recalled ~500 vehicles which at the time was basically all they had made, for a serious suspension issue. Yes, again, only a small % actually had the defect, but they were all recalled in for inspection. I really really want Lucid to succeed, as a 2018 Model 3 owner, the Lucid Air is a more interesting upgrade to me than a Model S/X.. with the stalkless yoke, crazy acceleration but underpowered brakes, etc. However I do not want to be an alpha tester at this price point, and am not going to be a buyer until theres a service center a reasonable distance, and 1000s of cars on the road. Lucid is still publicly stating a now reduced target of 12-14k 2022 deliveries, but we are 5 months into the year and they have maybe delivered 2k at best. They’ll be lucky if they deliver half their goal. They can probably flounder for a while given the level of Saudi funding, much like Rivian can with the Amazon funding.. At the $100k price range the MB EQS or Porsche Taycan are pretty cool, but hard to get hold of.. and you are back dealing the the old boys network of dealers. Lots of stories of people being asked to pay 5-figure dealer markups since they know they can get away with it. The sweet spot might be the Genesis GV60 which is basically a luxxed up Ioniq 5 with every luxury feature you could imagine thrown in, instead of offered as $1-2k options each. While the Koreans are trying to sell the US on the concept of a luxury Korean vehicle, they are basically throwing the kitchen sink of features in. Stuff like Active Noise Cancellation, Vehicle to Load charging, all the fancy drivers aids, maximally adjustable/heated/cooled seats…
- jquery 4y ago
  I’d give them a chance. Then doing a full recall is the responsible move and in the long run should establish confidence. I doubt Tesla would have done a full recall for something as “trivial” as the displays sometimes failing. In fact I’m pretty sure Elon knew this was a problem with Teslas from the get-go (the displays were not up to spec) and shipped the cars anyway and made everyone sign an NDA who had an issue.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    I think the precariousness of Tesla, horrible service network, and months wait times on repair parts well into the 2019-2020 pre-pandemic time frame should chasten anyone who wants to buy an EV from an even smaller firm who are 5-8 years behind Tesla on the growth curve!
CHB0403085482 4y ago
For those who haven't heard of the Lucid AIR EV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8
user_7832 4y ago
Slightly tangential to the recall itself, but why would someone build a car company from scratch? It sounds like quite an arduous thing due to how complex cars are, and how heavy regulations and testing is. I would think collaborating with existing companies may be much easier (asking partly as someone curious why Lucid went that way, but also as someone who wants to start their own auto co in the future.)
- uninformed 4y ago
  From what I understand, the very end goal is not to make money off of the hardware but the services that the hardware will provide. Existing OEMs are not easy to work with, especially if you're trying to get them to install your app in their car. I like to think of it like the smart phone hardware/software revolution that happened after the first iPhone came out. Tesla is like Apple and I hope Lucid will become like Android. The pre-EV era OEMs are like Nokia, Blackberry, etc...
  - user_7832 4y ago
    Thanks for your answer
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Hard to tell if this is a more significant recall than other cars. How comparable is it to normal ICE recalls?
kposehn 4y ago
I have an Air GT and received the notification already. I've driven my car >1600 miles in only a few weeks of ownership and can vouch for the quality. It is vastly better put together than you would expect for an EV startup and is an absolute joy to drive. As for the news, car companies have recalls and Lucid is no exception. The wiring harness in the dash needs a few zip ties if the issue is present and takes 10-15min to check for. Service has been great and they're going to check it tomorrow - so far only a few cars have needed it.
- kposehn 4y ago
  For anyone who comes back to this thread: my Air GT was checked on Friday and didn’t have the issue. Took 15min and service was excellent as usual.
- xeromal 4y ago
  What kind of range are you getting? I have a model S and I'm looking to change it out soon.
  - kposehn 4y ago
    I’m charging to ~80% daily, a fairly spirited driver, and running on the 19” wheels. So far my typical usage gets 3.7mi/kWh and if I dial it back a ways I can get over 4.3 (that isn’t my common usage though). That translates to ~414mi per full charge in daily use and ~483 if I baby it. I highly recommend the Lucid over the Model S if you value driving enjoyment, space, luxury and range over the supercharger convenience and tesla UX. The Lucid is a vastly superior platform over the Tesla, but has a lot of catching up to do from a software standpoint (though to be fair, they’re improving very fast). As for the other options in the segment, the EQS is very plush but the brakes are atrocious and the ride is nowhere near what it should be. The Taycan is a hell of a sports car, but super small inside and has very short range. Each has its advantages and drawbacks, but imho the Lucid strikes a very good balance of them all with very few shortcomings.
    - xeromal 4y ago
uninformed 4y ago
This actually gives me a lot of confidence in Lucid! They estimate that only 1% of vehicles are affected and they initiated the recall before anyone got hurt. Other Auto OEMs would have likely ignored the issue and moved on.

81 points by lxm 4y ago

"No one gets it on the first try" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW5cB2UWTX0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW5cB2UWTX0

LeoPanthera 4y ago

I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. I've had my eyes on the Lucid Air Touring as my next car, but stuff like this doesn't instill confidence. The absolute disaster that is Tesla's build quality and servicing is one of the reasons I'm switching in the first place! The whole EV market is a disaster right now. If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. I hate it.

reducesuffering 4y ago
> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups Just a year ago people were getting GM/Chevy Bolt's out the door for $19k - $25k. Granted, those did have battery recalls. Might be worse price-wise now though as it looks like even 2 years old ones are selling for more than that on my local craiglist. https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_premier_post_your_price/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/ms9qbp/2021_bolt_pr... https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point_2020_lt_for_25k_out_the_door/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BoltEV/comments/lff7ff/a_data_point...
- sebmellen 4y ago
  My father was once a car dealer and is a pro Long-Island style negotiator — he walked out the door with a fully loaded Bolt for 22k in CA, about a year ago. The Chevy Bolt and Chevy Spark are great cars.
  - nr2x 4y ago
    I just sat my laptop on the counter and fact checked what they told me in real time, told them what I’d pay, and got a stellar deal.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    I got a Gen 2 Volt in late 2020 for $19k, low mileage and top trim. Great car that hasn't given me any trouble and more than takes care of my commute with its battery.
- nr2x 4y ago
  I love driving my 22 Bolt but the battery is software capped at 80% capacity as a temporary fix and they cannot tell when I’ll get a new battery. So I’d say get a Nissan Leaf and avoid Bolt until GM gets their shit together.
  - spear 4y ago
    A Bolt capped at 80% still has way more range than a Leaf and not much less range than a Leaf Plus.
    - nr2x 4y ago
      The low end Leaf costs much less, and I bought the Bolt for the greater range, which I don’t have now. The extended range Leaf is what is I’d buy today. As an owner of a Bolt I think I have a fairly well informed opinion.
  - chipsa 4y ago
    Dealers can't sell new cars under recall. If they can sell you a new one, it's got a new battery and doesn't have the capacity cap.
pryelluw 4y ago
I just bought a new Camry hybrid. Gives me 60+ total mpg without any fuss. I’m learning how to drive it to maximize electric use. My first pick was a Prius prime but those were on a huge back order. Having a 25 mile electric range is perfect for us.
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  A Camry is not an EV and I have no interest in burning fossils ever again. Edit: I can't reply to comments under this, I don't know why, so let me just add here: Yes, I know that the manufacture of any vehicle produces unwanted byproducts. That doesn't mean they're all equally bad. My electricity comes from completely renewable sources, and none of my money goes to the oil industry. Those issues are important to me. I don't need lecturing on how I've got it all wrong.
  - sebmellen 4y ago
    Unfortunately many fossils will be burnt in the production of any EV, the shipping of it, and (most likely) the fuel used to power it. Don’t get me wrong, EVs are great (my parents own two that run off-grid on solar), but the absolutist mentality of a lot of the EV community about “fossil fuels” is counterproductive. We should be encouraging as many realistic countermeasures as we can — priuses, EVs, hydrogen, hybrids, whatever! The less fossil fuels being burned the better!!!
    - pengaru 4y ago
      It's not exactly unreasonable to be absolutist about the fossil fuel burners you actually have control over, and the technology really has gotten to where you no longer need to ever use things like gas powered lawn mowers weed wackers chain saws cars motorcycles etc. It's not harmful to choose in electric form in an absolutist manner, if you must have those things at all.
    - dymk 4y ago
      Hydrogen cars will require fossil fuels to be manufactured, same with hybrids. EVs have a smaller carbon footprint than both over their lifetime. No duh, current manufacturing is done with fossil fuels. Everybody knows that. So what's the point of a comment like this, other than to downplay how important EVs are going to be at solving the climate crisis?
uejfiweun 4y ago
The whole entire car market is a disaster. Used car prices are still insane and non-EV dealer markups are still insane. Moreover I've heard anecdotal reports of serious quality issues with most cars that were released during the pandemic. It really sucks.
rwmurrayVT 4y ago
The company I worked for just released a new non-contact scanner with accuracy similar to a laser tracker. The only potential automotive companies that have expressed interest so far are EV only.
assttoasstmgr 4y ago
Based on your comments, it sounds like you might be in the market for a Homer by Powell Motors.
- Sparkle-san 4y ago
  Does it have Rack and Peanut steering?
- tclancy 4y ago
  You gotta have excellent personal hygiene for one of those!
- olyjohn 4y ago
  I mean, the Hummer EV is basically the Canyonero.
roseway4 4y ago
I’m surprised Polestar hasn’t been mentioned. While not mainstream—yet—the PS2 is a great car. We definitely had teething issues (software mostly) with the Launch Edition, but Polestar’s Android Automative implementation has got more solid in the last year.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Polestar and Volvo both have excellent EVs. Audi's e-tron models, ditto. The EQS, same. BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. Hyundai's Ioniq 5, so far getting rave reviews from owners that match the press. The Ford Mach-E is having a bit of teething issues reportedly (cooling related, I think?) but I see them all over the place. The Ford Lightning has sold out several years worth of production. GM has the Ultium platform in production (Hummer) which will soon serve as the base for a number of models. The Equinox EV is in testing and everyone's guess is that they will sell better than hotcakes unless GM manages to fuck it up. Hopefully they call all the "fuck it up" out of their system with the Bolt. VW right now is trailing the pack. The IQ4 by all accounts was a huge swing and a miss, which is inexcusable coming from one of the world's largest car companies. They tried to "re-imagine" "the car" on a basic level and failed miserably. For example: it automatically turns on/off. No power/start switch. Just get in, use the "gear" selector, and drive. Ditto for stoping. Sounds great, right? Except if you come out of the driver's seat for even a second (as is common when backing up) the car thinks you're "leaving" and almost immediately shuts itself off. Then they had to go and infantilize the climate control system. I wish I were joking when you tap a "I'm cold" button or "I can't see out the windshield" to get things to happen. Apparently VW's IQ team thinks people are absolute imbeciles.
  - cobalt 4y ago
    blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)
    - bdcravens 4y ago
danans 4y ago
VW and Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered ID.4 and Mach-e, but you need to order and wait for delivery which takes up to 9 months right now. The cars are the lot today available to buy (often abandoned pre-orders but also dealer orders) are being marked up.
- kjksf 4y ago
  > Ford dealers seem to be honoring MSRP with pre-ordered Mach-e That's, like, the opposite of truth. In other words: a lie. https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealerships-put-unbelievable-markup-on-mach-e-once-again-proves-tesla-direct-sales-wins https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/ford-dealersh... Majority of dealerships will always act in their self-interest and therefore heavily mark-up cars that are in demand. Only dealership-free new entrants like Tesla / Rivian / Lucid have a single, no-haggling price.
  - danans 4y ago
    That's for cars on the lot. Your article says nothing about pre-ordered vehicles. The ID.4 I ordered is MSRP because ordered it months ago. Similar for a pre-ordered Mach E from people I know who have bought them that way lately. The dealer markup for cars on lot sucks, that much I agree with, and that's down to the power of traditional dealerships and and of course supply and demand.
  - macintux 4y ago
    It's generally unwise, and explicitly against the guidelines on this site, to call someone a liar.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    Ford cracked down on that practice months ago. (https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6-billion-dealer-markups https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/ford-cracking-down-3-6..., https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracking-down-on-dealers-for-inflating-prices/ar-AATDNaY?ocid=FinanceShimLayer https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/ford-gm-are-cracki...)
- 4y ago
xiphias2 4y ago
EVs are not yet competitive with gas cars, as battery manufacturing needs more ramp up / development to mature. Every company is forced to take shortcuts with EVs right now, and it will be like this for a few years, but I expect the shortcuts to decrease over time.
binkHN 4y ago
> I've been a Tesla owner for a couple of years and I am anxious to sell it. I no longer want to be associated with that company. Why?
kposehn 4y ago
I can vouch for the Lucid being excellent and I'd say the touring is the pick of the range. If you want to switch away from Tesla it is an excellent option, as is the Polestar (if you don't need the same mix of range/performance/space as the Lucid).
Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
> If you want an EV from a "mainstream" manufacturer, be prepared to pay enormous dealer markups and be bullied into upgrades. Tesla has plenty of things about them to criticize, but one thing they did well was the buying experience. They cut out all the bullshit that dealers put you through. It took me five minutes to purchase my car online. When delivery day came, just had to sign a couple DMV forms, add my phone as a key, and I was done. No bullshit upselling, no haggling on the price, just get online, fill out the forms, and done.
erulabs 4y ago
Anxiety, hate, “disaster”... it’s a 50k luxury item. People who “hate” iPhones evoke the same response from me: being bored at your rich toys is gross. I also own a Tesla and it’s the best car I’ve ever driven. Was it worth the money? God no, I’m going back to buying Hondas like I used to, but I’m certainly not filled with disgust over what the vast majority of humans would consider an insane luxury. Would I prioritize phone support a bit more if I was the CEO? Sure... but I'm not seething over it. You have to be pretty unaware of how difficult it is to accomplish almost anything to be so full of disgust at so many doing so much.

waiseristy 4y ago

Not surprising, wiring harnesses are incredibly difficult. The big OEM's still have issues with them. Also title is wrong, there is an update at the bottom of the article : > The recall applies to 1,117 vehicles that have been delivered to customers, and it is estimated that the defect is present on 1% of cars

macintux 4y ago
The title is accurate: they’re all being recalled, but they estimate only 1% have the defect.
- ovi256 4y ago
  The fact they don't know which ones have the defect suggests their configuration management isn't great yet. If it was they should be able to recall just the affected cars. That will help not pay the cost of recalling 100000s of cars when they get to mass production.
- waiseristy 4y ago
  Oh whoops, should have realized that they have only shipped ~1k cars
sp332 4y ago
I wonder why the statement from Lucid conflicts with the math in the third paragraph.

Yhippa 4y ago

Move fast and break things?

xeromal 4y ago
I don't think it's feasible to build something as large as a new car manufacturer and not have issues. They're too huge. It's like trying to recreate a search engine from scratch and not have bugs while also having a limited runway to hit critical mass and not go bankrupt.

travisporter 4y ago

Just make a ducking dumb electric car already! We don’t need 4 screens in every car. Mirrors, speedometer, battery gauge. CarPlay/android auto as an accessory. I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this.

assttoasstmgr 4y ago
So basically we need a mass produced equivalent of this: https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-with-eluminator-electric-crate-motor-shows-the-future-of-restomodding https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1134053_1978-ford-f-100-... I'm on board.
- jdhn 4y ago
  I would trade in my Mustang for this and I'm not even a truck guy.
skykooler 4y ago
I was going to suggest the Bollinger B1, but it's gone from Bollinger's website so I don't know whether it even exists anymore.
- myself248 4y ago
  Yeah, they pivoted to commercial truck chassis. My guess is after the F150 lightning was announced, large fractions of their consumer market share basically stampeded over yonder. That's a shame, because as you've pointed out, it was a perfect balance of a modern EV powertrain with classic simple function. For the dozens of us who'd prioritize that above all else, it was a perfect fit, but I don't think we're big enough market.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
I have no idea why you're shouting at clouds about this in a discussion about a car targeting the mid-high luxury market. They're going after Model S and Mercedes EQS market share. The luxury market has gone toward using lots of screens. If you're not in the market for a $100,000 car, this has no effect on, or relevancy to, you. > I will say that Kia niro ev came pretty close to this. A friend has a Kia Niro and bought it specifically because of how loaded it was with features and gadgets for the price. It has a veritable sea of buttons on the wheel and center console, and two screens. Come on, dude. If you want a basic EV, the Chevy Bolt is about the closest you'll likely get. With no options it'll come with very few "toys." The whole "why don't they make a very basic car" has been rehashed over and over here and elsewhere. There's no market. Most of the expense is in development, emissions, crash testing, and tooling - not tacking on bits and bobs. People want bits and bobs, which is why they pay lots of extra money for them. The whole "why touch screens" has been rehashed over and over as well. Touch screens are cheap to manufacture, can be heavily reused (Ford uses the same small handful of screens in a number of its vehicles for example), easily localized, and can be updated in functionality. Yes, they're terrible from a UX standpoint. Car companies don't care.

steveBK123 4y ago

It’s unfortunate since Lucid was supposed to be “Tesla, but with adults in the room” and so far.. this is actually their second full production recall. A few months ago they recalled ~500 vehicles which at the time was basically all they had made, for a serious suspension issue. Yes, again, only a small % actually had the defect, but they were all recalled in for inspection. I really really want Lucid to succeed, as a 2018 Model 3 owner, the Lucid Air is a more interesting upgrade to me than a Model S/X.. with the stalkless yoke, crazy acceleration but underpowered brakes, etc. However I do not want to be an alpha tester at this price point, and am not going to be a buyer until theres a service center a reasonable distance, and 1000s of cars on the road. Lucid is still publicly stating a now reduced target of 12-14k 2022 deliveries, but we are 5 months into the year and they have maybe delivered 2k at best. They’ll be lucky if they deliver half their goal. They can probably flounder for a while given the level of Saudi funding, much like Rivian can with the Amazon funding.. At the $100k price range the MB EQS or Porsche Taycan are pretty cool, but hard to get hold of.. and you are back dealing the the old boys network of dealers. Lots of stories of people being asked to pay 5-figure dealer markups since they know they can get away with it. The sweet spot might be the Genesis GV60 which is basically a luxxed up Ioniq 5 with every luxury feature you could imagine thrown in, instead of offered as $1-2k options each. While the Koreans are trying to sell the US on the concept of a luxury Korean vehicle, they are basically throwing the kitchen sink of features in. Stuff like Active Noise Cancellation, Vehicle to Load charging, all the fancy drivers aids, maximally adjustable/heated/cooled seats…

jquery 4y ago
I’d give them a chance. Then doing a full recall is the responsible move and in the long run should establish confidence. I doubt Tesla would have done a full recall for something as “trivial” as the displays sometimes failing. In fact I’m pretty sure Elon knew this was a problem with Teslas from the get-go (the displays were not up to spec) and shipped the cars anyway and made everyone sign an NDA who had an issue.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  I think the precariousness of Tesla, horrible service network, and months wait times on repair parts well into the 2019-2020 pre-pandemic time frame should chasten anyone who wants to buy an EV from an even smaller firm who are 5-8 years behind Tesla on the growth curve!

CHB0403085482 4y ago

For those who haven't heard of the Lucid AIR EV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8

user_7832 4y ago

Slightly tangential to the recall itself, but why would someone build a car company from scratch? It sounds like quite an arduous thing due to how complex cars are, and how heavy regulations and testing is. I would think collaborating with existing companies may be much easier (asking partly as someone curious why Lucid went that way, but also as someone who wants to start their own auto co in the future.)

uninformed 4y ago
From what I understand, the very end goal is not to make money off of the hardware but the services that the hardware will provide. Existing OEMs are not easy to work with, especially if you're trying to get them to install your app in their car. I like to think of it like the smart phone hardware/software revolution that happened after the first iPhone came out. Tesla is like Apple and I hope Lucid will become like Android. The pre-EV era OEMs are like Nokia, Blackberry, etc...
- user_7832 4y ago
  Thanks for your answer

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

Hard to tell if this is a more significant recall than other cars. How comparable is it to normal ICE recalls?

kposehn 4y ago

I have an Air GT and received the notification already. I've driven my car >1600 miles in only a few weeks of ownership and can vouch for the quality. It is vastly better put together than you would expect for an EV startup and is an absolute joy to drive. As for the news, car companies have recalls and Lucid is no exception. The wiring harness in the dash needs a few zip ties if the issue is present and takes 10-15min to check for. Service has been great and they're going to check it tomorrow - so far only a few cars have needed it.

kposehn 4y ago
For anyone who comes back to this thread: my Air GT was checked on Friday and didn’t have the issue. Took 15min and service was excellent as usual.
xeromal 4y ago
What kind of range are you getting? I have a model S and I'm looking to change it out soon.
- kposehn 4y ago
  I’m charging to ~80% daily, a fairly spirited driver, and running on the 19” wheels. So far my typical usage gets 3.7mi/kWh and if I dial it back a ways I can get over 4.3 (that isn’t my common usage though). That translates to ~414mi per full charge in daily use and ~483 if I baby it. I highly recommend the Lucid over the Model S if you value driving enjoyment, space, luxury and range over the supercharger convenience and tesla UX. The Lucid is a vastly superior platform over the Tesla, but has a lot of catching up to do from a software standpoint (though to be fair, they’re improving very fast). As for the other options in the segment, the EQS is very plush but the brakes are atrocious and the ride is nowhere near what it should be. The Taycan is a hell of a sports car, but super small inside and has very short range. Each has its advantages and drawbacks, but imho the Lucid strikes a very good balance of them all with very few shortcomings.
  - xeromal 4y ago

uninformed 4y ago

This actually gives me a lot of confidence in Lucid! They estimate that only 1% of vehicles are affected and they initiated the recall before anyone got hurt. Other Auto OEMs would have likely ignored the issue and moved on.