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There is a correlation chart[1] of gun ownership and gun deaths per state for 2013 in this article: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-stu

by jka 4y ago

There is a correlation chart[1] of gun ownership and gun deaths per state for 2013 in this article: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-study-one-in-three/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/gun-owners-stud... (correlation does not explain causation, but it may help to guide analysis) [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20211204010352/https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/gun-ownership-vs-gun-deaths_2.png https://web.archive.org/web/20211204010352/https://www.mothe...

chroma 4y ago
That is gun deaths, not gun homicides or mass shootings. Around 2/3rds of gun deaths are suicides. A suicidal person will choose the most effective and painless method available to them, so if they have a gun around, they'll use it. This is a totally different problem than gun violence, but many activists will conflate the two.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Its not "conflation". Its recognition that background-checks, and delays, should reduce gun-violence AND cut back on suicides.
  - Ichthypresbyter 4y ago
    I'm not sure how much of an effect they would have on suicides. This may just be my stereotypical mental image, but I suspect that a lot of gun suicide victims have owned the gun in question for a long time, in which case a waiting period wouldn't help any more than a waiting period to buy a car would stop people driving off bridges. Are there any numbers on how many people commit suicide with guns they bought in the last 6 months of their life?
Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
Because they are sneaking suicides into the numbers. If you split the data up between suicides and homicides, the correlation disappears.
- jka 4y ago
  Upvoted and agreed, that's a reasonable complaint. Can you provide sources that illustrate the absence of correlation after dividing the dataset? I haven't yet, although I did find this publication from Boston University positive correlation between increased gun ownership and increased non-stranger homicide rates: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167105/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167105/
  - Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
    This post basically explains the bait-and-switch being used. https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between?s=r https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-... The post also questions how studies like the one you linked are measuring gun ownership rate. Every reliable study uses % of suicides with guns as a proxy for gun ownership rates. RAND notes the same thing: "A fundamental limitation for all of the studies is the lack of direct measures of gun prevalence. All of the authors use FS/S as a proxy for gun prevalence" https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/fir... https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/fir...

by jka 4y ago

chroma 4y ago

That is gun deaths, not gun homicides or mass shootings. Around 2/3rds of gun deaths are suicides. A suicidal person will choose the most effective and painless method available to them, so if they have a gun around, they'll use it. This is a totally different problem than gun violence, but many activists will conflate the two.

dragontamer 4y ago
Its not "conflation". Its recognition that background-checks, and delays, should reduce gun-violence AND cut back on suicides.
- Ichthypresbyter 4y ago
  I'm not sure how much of an effect they would have on suicides. This may just be my stereotypical mental image, but I suspect that a lot of gun suicide victims have owned the gun in question for a long time, in which case a waiting period wouldn't help any more than a waiting period to buy a car would stop people driving off bridges. Are there any numbers on how many people commit suicide with guns they bought in the last 6 months of their life?

Acrobatic_Road 4y ago

Because they are sneaking suicides into the numbers. If you split the data up between suicides and homicides, the correlation disappears.

jka 4y ago
Upvoted and agreed, that's a reasonable complaint. Can you provide sources that illustrate the absence of correlation after dividing the dataset? I haven't yet, although I did find this publication from Boston University positive correlation between increased gun ownership and increased non-stranger homicide rates: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167105/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4167105/
- Acrobatic_Road 4y ago
  This post basically explains the bait-and-switch being used. https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between?s=r https://hwfo.substack.com/p/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-... The post also questions how studies like the one you linked are measuring gun ownership rate. Every reliable study uses % of suicides with guns as a proxy for gun ownership rates. RAND notes the same thing: "A fundamental limitation for all of the studies is the lack of direct measures of gun prevalence. All of the authors use FS/S as a proxy for gun prevalence" https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/fir... https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/firearm-prevalence-violent-crime.html https://www.rand.org/research/gun-policy/analysis/essays/fir...