4 ms·

If we look at the data we can see a significant increase in the last decade, and the mass school shootings are almost exclusively a modern concept from the last

by belorn 4y ago

If we look at the data we can see a significant increase in the last decade, and the mass school shootings are almost exclusively a modern concept from the last 30 years. A question one might ask is then what changed in the USA during those years to trigger this. In addition those factors should be compared to other nations. We should also look at what prevent school shootings. What in society might protect against a kid going to school with the intention to harm staff or students? A fatal event only occur if there is enough risk factors and not enough protective factors. My own thoughts go to increase stress in schools as one factor, social media/news focus, increasingly larger difference in social class among students (source for social tensions), a lack of trained psychologists at schools, a culture that focus on individualism. Out of those, tensions from social class would be my primary suspect when asking why say Serbia has less school shootings than the USA.

mjevans 4y ago
In the last 30 years or so, even before social media; the 'zero tolerance' issue others have spoken of started to happen. Bullies don't care, and then learn what they can to make the lives of anyone even a tiny bit different, like those who want to try hard to do well and answer questions, a living hell. The bullies become experts in the system. They trip, push, flick ears, and these days probably far worse. I believe the stories from my parents day, that the solutions for kids USED to be, as others have also said, to throw a punch, to fight back. That sort of behavior worked because it prevented the creation of something terrible. Victims. Fighting back is how you prevent the creation of victims. It works in the realm of the savage.
brandonmenc 4y ago
> mass school shootings are almost exclusively a modern concept from the last 30 years. A question one might ask is then what changed in the USA during those years to trigger this. The invention of the first person shooter (aka: the mass shooting simulator.) 30 years almost to the day.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  But these games are just as popular in many other countries as well.
  - brandonmenc 4y ago
    We also have guns. But we’ve always had guns, so it’s not just the availability of guns. We didn’t see mass shootings until the FPS was invented. And just about every mass shooter (certainly every school shooter) has been trained on FPS.
    - jjeaff 4y ago
      Ok, but there are lots of countries with guns AND first person shooter gaming. So why is it worse in the US?
- JohnWhigham 4y ago
  Hello Jack Thompson
  - brandonmenc 4y ago
    Ad hominem, but two things can be simultaneously true: 1. Most people can play FPS and not carry out a mass shooting. 2. FPS increases the chances that someone who is mentally ill carries out a mass shooting.
    - JasserInicide 4y ago
      As the other commenter said: violent games are popular all over the world, but it's only the US with the gun problem. So I think they can be safely crossed off the list. Also there's numerous studies that have come out over the past 20 years showing there's little to no connection between virtual violence and real violence. If anything, they help as an outlet. Google is your friend here. Finally, Jack Thompson is a good cautionary tale of what happens when you let your tyrannical crusade overwhelm you to the point of destroying your career. Don't be a Jack Thompson. Violent games are very far down on the list of things to address regarding the US gun problem.
brnaftr361 4y ago
I think psychology is one of the issues. You go from being "particular" to ADHD, or chronically depressed, clinical anxious, ODD... And from those diagnostics most, I imagine, will typically end up on medications. It's the path of least resistance for the parent(s). Beyond that it can be used as an apparatus to excuse behaviors, or to broker certain exceptions. It can also become a narrative tool used to nucleate an identity, and that can be a hazard in some cases. I don't think we do focus on individualism, either, and that's a problem. Proper individualism entails rigid personal accountability. Perhaps it's implied, and in effect what we've done is given a child a hammer without teaching them to swing it, no doubt many a sore thumb. In fact I really wonder if it's even probable that teachers can meaningfully interface with all but a few students. I think workload has been increasing, and that's the anecdotal feedback I've gotten - harder work for younger kids. Less time for exploratory learning. Boys are perceived to have a significantly worse time than their female peers by their teachers. They also end up more disciplined. They're more likely to be "diagnosed" with ADHD than girls by a factor of two. Boys also experience higher dropout rates and juvenile detention. There's also an increasing rate of single mothers, and single parents just do not have it easy, women especially - and that puts more pressures onto the kids. Support structures can be dogshit. Economy has moved. Families have been fractured and dispersed over long distances. And society doesn't really have the many support groups it once did. I can't speak statistically, but hearing about the dirt roads of the Denver Metro in the 70's and driving through it now, it's insanely packed. I grew up in rural areas, there were never any pretensions about danger or safety, and me and my friends wandered all over the town totally unsupervised as late as 2004. I don't know that such privileges are extended to these kids growing up in cities. Expectations is another thing. Not only do the institutions make comparisons, they do it explicitly and loudly, but so do the kids. Yeah, the socioeconomic disparities I don't have any doubt play a role, but there's also kids watching these "perfect family" videos on youtube, watching super-human feats of every sort, egregious conspicuous consumption... And then they're just average, but the skew that such exposure introduces is, I can only imagine, pretty dangerous to some kids. It's so multifaceted though. We've really got to look at the individuals holistically, track every step and kind of come to a real understanding of why they did it.
prawn 4y ago
It is much more difficult to buy a gun in Serbia. dsizzle, elsewhere in the thread: "You can't buy automatic or semiautomatic weapons, and registration — including background checks and safety training — is required for all gun owners." Gun ownership is probably quite high because of war in recent decades, but it would be much more difficult for someone to impulsively buy a gun because they were currently angry and looking for an outlet or revenge.
npc12345 4y ago
The only correct answer in this godforsaken discussion.

by belorn 4y ago

mjevans 4y ago

In the last 30 years or so, even before social media; the 'zero tolerance' issue others have spoken of started to happen. Bullies don't care, and then learn what they can to make the lives of anyone even a tiny bit different, like those who want to try hard to do well and answer questions, a living hell. The bullies become experts in the system. They trip, push, flick ears, and these days probably far worse. I believe the stories from my parents day, that the solutions for kids USED to be, as others have also said, to throw a punch, to fight back. That sort of behavior worked because it prevented the creation of something terrible. Victims. Fighting back is how you prevent the creation of victims. It works in the realm of the savage.

brandonmenc 4y ago

> mass school shootings are almost exclusively a modern concept from the last 30 years. A question one might ask is then what changed in the USA during those years to trigger this. The invention of the first person shooter (aka: the mass shooting simulator.) 30 years almost to the day.

jjeaff 4y ago
But these games are just as popular in many other countries as well.
- brandonmenc 4y ago
  We also have guns. But we’ve always had guns, so it’s not just the availability of guns. We didn’t see mass shootings until the FPS was invented. And just about every mass shooter (certainly every school shooter) has been trained on FPS.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    Ok, but there are lots of countries with guns AND first person shooter gaming. So why is it worse in the US?
JohnWhigham 4y ago
Hello Jack Thompson
- brandonmenc 4y ago
  Ad hominem, but two things can be simultaneously true: 1. Most people can play FPS and not carry out a mass shooting. 2. FPS increases the chances that someone who is mentally ill carries out a mass shooting.
  - JasserInicide 4y ago
    As the other commenter said: violent games are popular all over the world, but it's only the US with the gun problem. So I think they can be safely crossed off the list. Also there's numerous studies that have come out over the past 20 years showing there's little to no connection between virtual violence and real violence. If anything, they help as an outlet. Google is your friend here. Finally, Jack Thompson is a good cautionary tale of what happens when you let your tyrannical crusade overwhelm you to the point of destroying your career. Don't be a Jack Thompson. Violent games are very far down on the list of things to address regarding the US gun problem.

brnaftr361 4y ago

I think psychology is one of the issues. You go from being "particular" to ADHD, or chronically depressed, clinical anxious, ODD... And from those diagnostics most, I imagine, will typically end up on medications. It's the path of least resistance for the parent(s). Beyond that it can be used as an apparatus to excuse behaviors, or to broker certain exceptions. It can also become a narrative tool used to nucleate an identity, and that can be a hazard in some cases. I don't think we do focus on individualism, either, and that's a problem. Proper individualism entails rigid personal accountability. Perhaps it's implied, and in effect what we've done is given a child a hammer without teaching them to swing it, no doubt many a sore thumb. In fact I really wonder if it's even probable that teachers can meaningfully interface with all but a few students. I think workload has been increasing, and that's the anecdotal feedback I've gotten - harder work for younger kids. Less time for exploratory learning. Boys are perceived to have a significantly worse time than their female peers by their teachers. They also end up more disciplined. They're more likely to be "diagnosed" with ADHD than girls by a factor of two. Boys also experience higher dropout rates and juvenile detention. There's also an increasing rate of single mothers, and single parents just do not have it easy, women especially - and that puts more pressures onto the kids. Support structures can be dogshit. Economy has moved. Families have been fractured and dispersed over long distances. And society doesn't really have the many support groups it once did. I can't speak statistically, but hearing about the dirt roads of the Denver Metro in the 70's and driving through it now, it's insanely packed. I grew up in rural areas, there were never any pretensions about danger or safety, and me and my friends wandered all over the town totally unsupervised as late as 2004. I don't know that such privileges are extended to these kids growing up in cities. Expectations is another thing. Not only do the institutions make comparisons, they do it explicitly and loudly, but so do the kids. Yeah, the socioeconomic disparities I don't have any doubt play a role, but there's also kids watching these "perfect family" videos on youtube, watching super-human feats of every sort, egregious conspicuous consumption... And then they're just average, but the skew that such exposure introduces is, I can only imagine, pretty dangerous to some kids. It's so multifaceted though. We've really got to look at the individuals holistically, track every step and kind of come to a real understanding of why they did it.

prawn 4y ago

It is much more difficult to buy a gun in Serbia. dsizzle, elsewhere in the thread: "You can't buy automatic or semiautomatic weapons, and registration — including background checks and safety training — is required for all gun owners." Gun ownership is probably quite high because of war in recent decades, but it would be much more difficult for someone to impulsively buy a gun because they were currently angry and looking for an outlet or revenge.

npc12345 4y ago

The only correct answer in this godforsaken discussion.