5 ms·

Long Covid and Mitochondrial Dysregulation

33 points by mancerayder 4y ago

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
Glad they brought up oxidative stress. It could be a simple fix for some people. We know many of the pathways and nutrients needed to reduce oxidative stress. Manganese, zinc/copper, B6, Riboflavin, Selenium, Vitamin C are just some of the deficiencies they could start investigating.
- Andys 4y ago
  I went through every supplement, desperately for anything that works. Vitamin C actually had no effect or maybe even made things worse. There's evidence this is an autoimmune condition, which could be why steroids seem to help the symptoms, and juicing your body with vitamins doesn't. Having said that, high dose flushing niacin is the only thing which really helped alot.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Taking vitamins and supplements when you do not need them will always prove to be harmless or useless. All of these supplements can be tested for deficiency. Even omega-3 can be tested for deficiency. I do not advise anyone unless they know their genetics and their deficiencies take high dose supplements.
    - Andys 4y ago
      Sound advice, but unfortunately after regular medical avenues were exhausted, I had to take matters into my own hands or suffer terribly.
    - jcadam 4y ago
      Almost everyone living a "standard" Western lifestyle could use some supplemental Vitamin D.
avgDev 4y ago
Pretty interesting. I have been suffering from symptoms of long covid(not after exposure to covid obviously) for 10 years after exposure to flouroquinolone antibiotics. You could say I am a hipster who was suffering from fatigue before it was cool. All joking aside, there are some studies on these drugs which found mtDNA issues. An individual recently had his muscle biopsied by a researcher at mayo and he found mitochondrial depletion. The research has also looked at another individuals muscle tissue who suffered from flouroquinolone toxicity with same results. The researcher is planning on sharing his findings at some point but I believe his focus has been shifted to long covid. Symptoms are quite similar fatigue, dysuatonomia, joint paint, post exercise fatigue, therefore, I am quite excited about long covid. Many individuals recover over weeks...or years supplementing mito cocktail and antioxidants.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  That's very interesting. I posted the above because I'm researching what's happening to me along with what a long covid specialist told me. I don't know if I have the mitochondrial issue yet, but my doctor said I was at risk for Dysautonomia that could progress to POTS if I didn't a, do diaphragmatic breathing exercises, b, avoid weight training, c, do small amounts of cardio. He described anaerobic exercises causing dysautonomia due to the mitochondrial issues I later found the above. And reading what you wrote, I had a very strong reaction to Levofloxacin I was taking for an asymptomatic infection. For 12 hours I had fever, joint pain, nausea, anxiety, headache, chills fever, and it went away, til I took another dose (for the last time ever). My covid experience reposted: Two months ago I caught it, had two weeks of being reasonably sick, the last 10 days being a mean dry cough. Then the shortness of breath began, and the night sweats with the inability to sleep. Also a lot of very deep seated anxiety/ fight or flight feelings. The doctor said Dysautonomia was a very high risk and to avoid any real exercise, especially weight training. I started to feel better and caught a cold which brought back the cough. I don't know what this all means, but it seems likely that: covid affected the nervous system, that it may have caused neurological damage, that it caused long term inflammation...and finally, I'm sorry, but three vaccine shots doesn't prevent this (surely didn't for me). I've learned a lot these past months, and I'm meeting people regularly with dysautonomia symptoms after covid (dizziness, racing heart, shortness of breath). Some of them thought it was the vaccine. Nope, this can start months after infection.
refurb 4y ago
https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid This study is tracking Covid using a randomized, controlled study measuring multiple factors in order to identify is exactly what long Covid is. “…this is an ongoing study, but so far there are no diagnostic findings that would allow you to even say for sure that post-Covid even exists, biochemically.”
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  > PASC was defined as any symptom that developed (or worsened) with the infection and was still present at enrollment, weeks later. I can’t imagine why their study is controversial, when their study rules out a huge class of cases where symptoms weren’t even noticed until well after infection.
  - refurb 4y ago
    That's the definition of long covid, no? How can you feel fine, get covid, then feel bad weeks later and call it "long covid"?
    - jinder 4y ago
      It's super super common for people to recover from covid, be okay for a few weeks or even months and then lapse into long covid. In fact, it's relapse-remitting for many people. If you have symptoms of dysautonomia, this can be barely symptomatic until you do something that triggers an exaggerated sympathetic nervous system response.
      - refurb 4y ago
        Of course symptoms can wax and wane, but that's not what the grandparent claimed. They claimed a person would have zero Covid symptoms (and thus be excluded from the trial), which would skew the results. As per the trial design, if a patient had any symptoms of Covid and a positive Covid test, then they could be included. And despite a battery of tests, there was no physiological difference between those patients and the controls who had never been infected with Covid.
ComradePhil 4y ago
While we're at it, just wanted to mention that there will never be any studies on "long vaccines" because the researchers will be Wakefielded out of their jobs.
- pjc50 4y ago
  You mean commit a massive fraud with the complicity of newspapers?

33 points by mancerayder 4y ago

Glad they brought up oxidative stress. It could be a simple fix for some people. We know many of the pathways and nutrients needed to reduce oxidative stress. Manganese, zinc/copper, B6, Riboflavin, Selenium, Vitamin C are just some of the deficiencies they could start investigating.

Andys 4y ago
I went through every supplement, desperately for anything that works. Vitamin C actually had no effect or maybe even made things worse. There's evidence this is an autoimmune condition, which could be why steroids seem to help the symptoms, and juicing your body with vitamins doesn't. Having said that, high dose flushing niacin is the only thing which really helped alot.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Taking vitamins and supplements when you do not need them will always prove to be harmless or useless. All of these supplements can be tested for deficiency. Even omega-3 can be tested for deficiency. I do not advise anyone unless they know their genetics and their deficiencies take high dose supplements.
  - Andys 4y ago
    Sound advice, but unfortunately after regular medical avenues were exhausted, I had to take matters into my own hands or suffer terribly.
  - jcadam 4y ago
    Almost everyone living a "standard" Western lifestyle could use some supplemental Vitamin D.

avgDev 4y ago

Pretty interesting. I have been suffering from symptoms of long covid(not after exposure to covid obviously) for 10 years after exposure to flouroquinolone antibiotics. You could say I am a hipster who was suffering from fatigue before it was cool. All joking aside, there are some studies on these drugs which found mtDNA issues. An individual recently had his muscle biopsied by a researcher at mayo and he found mitochondrial depletion. The research has also looked at another individuals muscle tissue who suffered from flouroquinolone toxicity with same results. The researcher is planning on sharing his findings at some point but I believe his focus has been shifted to long covid. Symptoms are quite similar fatigue, dysuatonomia, joint paint, post exercise fatigue, therefore, I am quite excited about long covid. Many individuals recover over weeks...or years supplementing mito cocktail and antioxidants.

mancerayder 4y ago
That's very interesting. I posted the above because I'm researching what's happening to me along with what a long covid specialist told me. I don't know if I have the mitochondrial issue yet, but my doctor said I was at risk for Dysautonomia that could progress to POTS if I didn't a, do diaphragmatic breathing exercises, b, avoid weight training, c, do small amounts of cardio. He described anaerobic exercises causing dysautonomia due to the mitochondrial issues I later found the above. And reading what you wrote, I had a very strong reaction to Levofloxacin I was taking for an asymptomatic infection. For 12 hours I had fever, joint pain, nausea, anxiety, headache, chills fever, and it went away, til I took another dose (for the last time ever). My covid experience reposted: Two months ago I caught it, had two weeks of being reasonably sick, the last 10 days being a mean dry cough. Then the shortness of breath began, and the night sweats with the inability to sleep. Also a lot of very deep seated anxiety/ fight or flight feelings. The doctor said Dysautonomia was a very high risk and to avoid any real exercise, especially weight training. I started to feel better and caught a cold which brought back the cough. I don't know what this all means, but it seems likely that: covid affected the nervous system, that it may have caused neurological damage, that it caused long term inflammation...and finally, I'm sorry, but three vaccine shots doesn't prevent this (surely didn't for me). I've learned a lot these past months, and I'm meeting people regularly with dysautonomia symptoms after covid (dizziness, racing heart, shortness of breath). Some of them thought it was the vaccine. Nope, this can start months after infection.

refurb 4y ago

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/search-long-covid This study is tracking Covid using a randomized, controlled study measuring multiple factors in order to identify is exactly what long Covid is. “…this is an ongoing study, but so far there are no diagnostic findings that would allow you to even say for sure that post-Covid even exists, biochemically.”

eyelidlessness 4y ago
> PASC was defined as any symptom that developed (or worsened) with the infection and was still present at enrollment, weeks later. I can’t imagine why their study is controversial, when their study rules out a huge class of cases where symptoms weren’t even noticed until well after infection.
- refurb 4y ago
  That's the definition of long covid, no? How can you feel fine, get covid, then feel bad weeks later and call it "long covid"?
  - jinder 4y ago
    It's super super common for people to recover from covid, be okay for a few weeks or even months and then lapse into long covid. In fact, it's relapse-remitting for many people. If you have symptoms of dysautonomia, this can be barely symptomatic until you do something that triggers an exaggerated sympathetic nervous system response.
    - refurb 4y ago
      Of course symptoms can wax and wane, but that's not what the grandparent claimed. They claimed a person would have zero Covid symptoms (and thus be excluded from the trial), which would skew the results. As per the trial design, if a patient had any symptoms of Covid and a positive Covid test, then they could be included. And despite a battery of tests, there was no physiological difference between those patients and the controls who had never been infected with Covid.

ComradePhil 4y ago

While we're at it, just wanted to mention that there will never be any studies on "long vaccines" because the researchers will be Wakefielded out of their jobs.

pjc50 4y ago
You mean commit a massive fraud with the complicity of newspapers?