4 ms·

There is already a federal background check process on every purchase from a store or gun dealer; both the Texas and Buffalo shooters passed their background ch

There is already a federal background check process on every purchase from a store or gun dealer; both the Texas and Buffalo shooters passed their background check. To stop these guys you have to get working process to get them into the "can't purchase" list.

dragontamer 4y ago
"Background check" is vague and unhelpful. The question is "what should be on the background check". Spousal abuse seems like an easy one, since that is a crime and seems to correlate to these attackers. Adding it to the process seems easy enough, as long as we get enough people to agree it should be a background check option. Racism unfortunately has free-speech / 1st amendment right issues. It'd be a harder discussion point in general. But there needs to be a discussion about the rise in hate-speech and racism, especially since a lot of these mass-shootings are racially motivated.
- thinkmassive 4y ago
  > Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions? Question 21.i on Form 4473 https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
- chroma 4y ago
  It is already illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence (or subject to a restraining order) to possess firearms. The ATF form 4473[1] includes these questions about domestic violence: > Are you subject to a court order, including a Military Protection Order issued by a military judge or magistrate, restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner? > Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions? The information is verified by NICS[2], which will reject you if you've been convicted of domestic violence or are subject to a court order. Lying on this form is a felony punishable by up to 5 years in prison. The penalty applies even if the NICS check fails (meaning you never got possession of the firearm). 1. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-trans... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Back...
- WillPostForFood 4y ago
  "Background check" is vague and unhelpful. Here is the system: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics If have been convicted or under indictment for a felony, dishonorably discharged, have a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction or a restraining order, you will be denied.
bitwize 4y ago
How about, you're born on the "can't purchase" list and stay on the list until you've reached the age of 21, passed extensive background checks including having every single thing you've posted online carefully scrutinized by the BATFE, taken and passed a gun safety course and having completed the above, applied for and received a federal license to own a firearm or ammunition. If this sounds expensive and cumbersome, that's the point. It should be expensive and cumbersome to get a gun. The fact that it's so easy to get a gun in the USA is the problem. If I were Biden, I'd get Congress to pass a comprehensive gun ban. No guns or ammo of any type without a federal license. Assault weapons completely banned. Mags over seven rounds completely banned. Trafficking in ghost guns or information on the manufacture of ghost guns including CAD files for 3D printed guns -- banned. I would get the IRS and the BATFE to conduct enhanced audits and investigations of businesses who sold guns to ordinary schlubs including gun shops and gun and ammunition manufacturers. Yes, this will raise constitutional issues, but the lawsuits would take years to work their way through the courts, during which time I would binge-nominate Supreme Court justices who aligned with my views on the matter, bringing the total number of justices to 12 or 14 or so, and ensuring that effective defanging of the Second Amendment becomes national precedent when the cases do finally reach the Supremes. There is no excuse for so many guns being on the streets of a civilized nation.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > How about, you're born on the "can't purchase" list and stay on the list until you've reached the age of 21, passed extensive background checks including having every single thing you've posted online carefully scrutinized Excellent point. Everyone is born a potential mass murderer until proven otherwise by the totalitarian government surveillance apparatus whose reach must be expanded even further to investigate the dangerous thoughts and opinions of the citizens so that subversive ideas don't galvanize into armed revolt and insurrection, and if you were president of the USA you'd do everything in your power to further corrupt and erode yet another one of the very principles the nation was founded upon.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    I'm not saying everyone is born a potential mass murderer, only that you should need a license to own a gun and that to get such a license, you need to subject yourself to deep government scrutiny, because guns falling into the wrong hands have massive implications for public safety. The fact that you inferred "everyone is born a mass murderer" from that says a lot about how sick America is compared to the rest of the world on the matter of guns. Gun licensure will probably affect suicides more than it does mass murders. That's still an enormous improvement.

dragontamer 4y ago

"Background check" is vague and unhelpful. The question is "what should be on the background check". Spousal abuse seems like an easy one, since that is a crime and seems to correlate to these attackers. Adding it to the process seems easy enough, as long as we get enough people to agree it should be a background check option. Racism unfortunately has free-speech / 1st amendment right issues. It'd be a harder discussion point in general. But there needs to be a discussion about the rise in hate-speech and racism, especially since a lot of these mass-shootings are racially motivated.

thinkmassive 4y ago
> Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions? Question 21.i on Form 4473 https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download
chroma 4y ago
It is already illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence (or subject to a restraining order) to possess firearms. The ATF form 4473[1] includes these questions about domestic violence: > Are you subject to a court order, including a Military Protection Order issued by a military judge or magistrate, restraining you from harassing, stalking, or threatening your child or an intimate partner or child of such partner? > Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, or are you or have you ever been a member of the military and been convicted of a crime that included, as an element, the use of force against a person as identified in the instructions? The information is verified by NICS[2], which will reject you if you've been convicted of domestic violence or are subject to a court order. Lying on this form is a felony punishable by up to 5 years in prison. The penalty applies even if the NICS check fails (meaning you never got possession of the firearm). 1. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-trans... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Back...
WillPostForFood 4y ago
"Background check" is vague and unhelpful. Here is the system: https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics If have been convicted or under indictment for a felony, dishonorably discharged, have a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction or a restraining order, you will be denied.

bitwize 4y ago

How about, you're born on the "can't purchase" list and stay on the list until you've reached the age of 21, passed extensive background checks including having every single thing you've posted online carefully scrutinized by the BATFE, taken and passed a gun safety course and having completed the above, applied for and received a federal license to own a firearm or ammunition. If this sounds expensive and cumbersome, that's the point. It should be expensive and cumbersome to get a gun. The fact that it's so easy to get a gun in the USA is the problem. If I were Biden, I'd get Congress to pass a comprehensive gun ban. No guns or ammo of any type without a federal license. Assault weapons completely banned. Mags over seven rounds completely banned. Trafficking in ghost guns or information on the manufacture of ghost guns including CAD files for 3D printed guns -- banned. I would get the IRS and the BATFE to conduct enhanced audits and investigations of businesses who sold guns to ordinary schlubs including gun shops and gun and ammunition manufacturers. Yes, this will raise constitutional issues, but the lawsuits would take years to work their way through the courts, during which time I would binge-nominate Supreme Court justices who aligned with my views on the matter, bringing the total number of justices to 12 or 14 or so, and ensuring that effective defanging of the Second Amendment becomes national precedent when the cases do finally reach the Supremes. There is no excuse for so many guns being on the streets of a civilized nation.

matheusmoreira 4y ago
> How about, you're born on the "can't purchase" list and stay on the list until you've reached the age of 21, passed extensive background checks including having every single thing you've posted online carefully scrutinized Excellent point. Everyone is born a potential mass murderer until proven otherwise by the totalitarian government surveillance apparatus whose reach must be expanded even further to investigate the dangerous thoughts and opinions of the citizens so that subversive ideas don't galvanize into armed revolt and insurrection, and if you were president of the USA you'd do everything in your power to further corrupt and erode yet another one of the very principles the nation was founded upon.
- bitwize 4y ago
  I'm not saying everyone is born a potential mass murderer, only that you should need a license to own a gun and that to get such a license, you need to subject yourself to deep government scrutiny, because guns falling into the wrong hands have massive implications for public safety. The fact that you inferred "everyone is born a mass murderer" from that says a lot about how sick America is compared to the rest of the world on the matter of guns. Gun licensure will probably affect suicides more than it does mass murders. That's still an enormous improvement.