6 ms·

California governor pleads for more water conservation, warns of mandatory

11 points by LinuxBender 4y ago

theandrewbailey 4y ago
Have Californians stopped watering their golf courses? I'll believe Gavin's seriousness when that happens. Yes, agriculture uses most of the water, but what are you going to eat? Have you not read that severe food shortages are coming? Very few people are going to be happy eating bugs and drinking soylent while living in a pod in the metaverse.
- basedgod 4y ago
  you are using infantile logic to argue your point, that: -california grows food -americans need food to eat -therefoe, there should be absolutely no restrictions whatsoever on agriculture, and farmers should be able to use as much water and grown in the most wasteful ways possible, because after all we need food there's tons of crops in drought stricken California that are grown relatively efficiently. there's tons more where football fields of water are used to grow calorie empty foods in horribly inefficient ways farmers have such a lock over the feeble minded such as yourself that any blame they share over instances of wasteful water use is deflected because "hey we're growing food here and you need to eat" the state could issue subsidies for farmers to upgrade to lower impact irrigation systems. for other types of crops, their water usage is way too high compared to their caloric yield, and these crops should no longer be grown. our consumerist society doesn't justify growing literally whatever we want wherever we want, regardless of the externalities of water usage
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  The largest crop by water usage is used to feed horses. Alfalfa is 18% of all water, and 4% of farm revenue. The farmers only pay 7% of the price that city dwellers in LA pay per unit of water. Beyond that, tree nuts are a widely cited crop that uses excessive water. Point is, we probably can reevaluate how much we “need” this crops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California
  - bozhark 4y ago
    I thought it was agriculture, almonds specifically
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      Yea, this is true. Almonds use a lot of water per calories, which is where their reputation comes from. But alfalfa is apparently the biggest user of water in California.
  - spfzero 4y ago
    Indeed. Farmers grow a lot of things. Some are useful as human food. Some fewer are necessary food. Of the necessary food, could we, possibly, get it from somewhere else? Somewhere with more water?
codefreeordie 4y ago
This just two weeks after California decided not to build a water desalination plant since it wasn't "necessary".
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > This just two weeks after California decided not to build a water desalination plant since it wasn't "necessary". Wow! $97.5 Billion surplus (estimated costs was $1.4 Billion for this plant) and still this couldn't be passed? This will not end well. California has spent most of the last 15 years in drought conditions. Its normal wet season that runs from late fall to the end of winter was especially dry this year and as a result 95% of the state is classified as in severe drought. 0: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amid-drought-california-desalination-project-crossroads-84662737 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amid-drought-california-...
  - codefreeordie 4y ago
    > Some on Thursday also debated the extent of the local demand for the desalinated water. Orange County has an ample groundwater basin and recycles wastewater, making the region less dependent on imported water than San Diego. The commission also argues that it would be "cheaper" to simply order additional mandatory conservation than to build new infrastructure. It's pretty clear that California doesn't believe in the abundance agenda
    - Melting_Harps 4y ago
      > It's pretty clear that California doesn't believe in the abundance agenda It's worse than that, they even don't understand that economics behind this: Carlsbad is on track to pay it's expenses on Poseidon exactly because they're supplying other counties, thus proving it's a profitable business venture. The salt/brine is an issue, but consumption restrictions alone aren't enough when droughts have been going on for 15+ years, and reservoirs are depleting their levels. I agree conservation should take place, and the fact that their isn't water reclamation infrastructure for those wet years is a f'ing crime! But taking this amount of risk in a (rare) time of surplus is insanity. Having spent most of my time as an adult in OC I'm dissapointed, but not surprised; this kind of vapid and short sighted decision making is how they allowed SONGS to just store it's spent nuclear material on-site after the decommissioned it. Missing the point of why it was such in the first place. This is exactly the kind of non-sense why I refuse to go back.
ParksNet 4y ago
The standard American shower doesn't even have pressure control - a single knob goes from off, to cold, to hot, at constant (high pressure). I'm in a Californian hotel right now, and I need to redirect 75% of the water to the bath faucet to have a shower at reasonable pressure. A lot of wasted water. With proper pressure control in showers, and abandoning lawn watering (naturalscaping/xeriscaping looks better and is much more pollinator friendly anyway) we can cut a lot of household water use.
- theandrewbailey 4y ago
  Virtually all American hotel showers are like that (one knob). Most American home showers are not, and have separate hot and cold knobs allowing pressure control.
  - CincinnatiMan 4y ago
    I’m American and I’ve never seen the two knob style except in media. Wonder if it’s a regional thing or old house thing. I’ve only lived in homes built since the 80s, in the Midwest and southeast.
    - dude187 4y ago
      Two knobs is an older style, but lots of single knob style rotate side to side to set temperature and move up and down to set pressure
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  Most water in California is not used by households. If you make Californians stop showering at all it still wouldn’t solve the problem. I think pressure control in showers could be useful (?) but is ultimately a you issue (who wants less water pressure when showering?). Showering won’t solve Californias issues. It’ll just piss off the electorate. I agree with home landscaping though which is something like 50% of household water. It still only accounts for like 5% of total consumption across the state.
- bsder 4y ago
smcg 4y ago
Agriculture consumes the vast majority of CA water. A lot of it is for crops shipped overseas. It is domestic dead weight loss.
- musicale 4y ago
  Growing high water use crops (alfalfa, rice, cotton, almonds, etc.) for export outside the US doesn't seem like it would be good water policy for California.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Agriculture consumes the vast majority of CA water. Just do add some sources: https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ > "Water in California is shared across three main sectors. Statewide, average water use is roughly 50% environmental, 40% agricultural, and 10% urban, although the percentage of water use by sector varies dramatically across regions and between wet and dry years."
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    Important note here: "environmental" use is mostly letting the rivers empty into the ocean It's a semantic ploy to make people blame agricultural water usage less.
egberts1 4y ago
Not to mention that they killed off the Auburn Dam project that would nearly double the water supply to Sacramento and San Francisco.
musicale 4y ago
> As California stretches into its third year of drought no. > Since California's unnaturally wet period ended in the early 20th century and the naturally dry state continues to remain dry and become drier every year for the foreseeable future TFTFY
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
Voluntary never works. There are just too many people that don't care and aren't willing to change. Mandatory will only make people mad and a subset will do their best to fight it. The fix is to hike the costs and rebate to those that actually save and those under a certain income or charge a lot more once a household or business uses more than a certain amount of water.

11 points by LinuxBender 4y ago

Have Californians stopped watering their golf courses? I'll believe Gavin's seriousness when that happens. Yes, agriculture uses most of the water, but what are you going to eat? Have you not read that severe food shortages are coming? Very few people are going to be happy eating bugs and drinking soylent while living in a pod in the metaverse.

basedgod 4y ago
you are using infantile logic to argue your point, that: -california grows food -americans need food to eat -therefoe, there should be absolutely no restrictions whatsoever on agriculture, and farmers should be able to use as much water and grown in the most wasteful ways possible, because after all we need food there's tons of crops in drought stricken California that are grown relatively efficiently. there's tons more where football fields of water are used to grow calorie empty foods in horribly inefficient ways farmers have such a lock over the feeble minded such as yourself that any blame they share over instances of wasteful water use is deflected because "hey we're growing food here and you need to eat" the state could issue subsidies for farmers to upgrade to lower impact irrigation systems. for other types of crops, their water usage is way too high compared to their caloric yield, and these crops should no longer be grown. our consumerist society doesn't justify growing literally whatever we want wherever we want, regardless of the externalities of water usage
vineyardmike 4y ago
The largest crop by water usage is used to feed horses. Alfalfa is 18% of all water, and 4% of farm revenue. The farmers only pay 7% of the price that city dwellers in LA pay per unit of water. Beyond that, tree nuts are a widely cited crop that uses excessive water. Point is, we probably can reevaluate how much we “need” this crops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_in_California
- bozhark 4y ago
  I thought it was agriculture, almonds specifically
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    Yea, this is true. Almonds use a lot of water per calories, which is where their reputation comes from. But alfalfa is apparently the biggest user of water in California.
- spfzero 4y ago
  Indeed. Farmers grow a lot of things. Some are useful as human food. Some fewer are necessary food. Of the necessary food, could we, possibly, get it from somewhere else? Somewhere with more water?

codefreeordie 4y ago

This just two weeks after California decided not to build a water desalination plant since it wasn't "necessary".

Melting_Harps 4y ago
> This just two weeks after California decided not to build a water desalination plant since it wasn't "necessary". Wow! $97.5 Billion surplus (estimated costs was $1.4 Billion for this plant) and still this couldn't be passed? This will not end well. California has spent most of the last 15 years in drought conditions. Its normal wet season that runs from late fall to the end of winter was especially dry this year and as a result 95% of the state is classified as in severe drought. 0: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amid-drought-california-desalination-project-crossroads-84662737 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amid-drought-california-...
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  > Some on Thursday also debated the extent of the local demand for the desalinated water. Orange County has an ample groundwater basin and recycles wastewater, making the region less dependent on imported water than San Diego. The commission also argues that it would be "cheaper" to simply order additional mandatory conservation than to build new infrastructure. It's pretty clear that California doesn't believe in the abundance agenda
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > It's pretty clear that California doesn't believe in the abundance agenda It's worse than that, they even don't understand that economics behind this: Carlsbad is on track to pay it's expenses on Poseidon exactly because they're supplying other counties, thus proving it's a profitable business venture. The salt/brine is an issue, but consumption restrictions alone aren't enough when droughts have been going on for 15+ years, and reservoirs are depleting their levels. I agree conservation should take place, and the fact that their isn't water reclamation infrastructure for those wet years is a f'ing crime! But taking this amount of risk in a (rare) time of surplus is insanity. Having spent most of my time as an adult in OC I'm dissapointed, but not surprised; this kind of vapid and short sighted decision making is how they allowed SONGS to just store it's spent nuclear material on-site after the decommissioned it. Missing the point of why it was such in the first place. This is exactly the kind of non-sense why I refuse to go back.

ParksNet 4y ago

The standard American shower doesn't even have pressure control - a single knob goes from off, to cold, to hot, at constant (high pressure). I'm in a Californian hotel right now, and I need to redirect 75% of the water to the bath faucet to have a shower at reasonable pressure. A lot of wasted water. With proper pressure control in showers, and abandoning lawn watering (naturalscaping/xeriscaping looks better and is much more pollinator friendly anyway) we can cut a lot of household water use.

theandrewbailey 4y ago
Virtually all American hotel showers are like that (one knob). Most American home showers are not, and have separate hot and cold knobs allowing pressure control.
- CincinnatiMan 4y ago
  I’m American and I’ve never seen the two knob style except in media. Wonder if it’s a regional thing or old house thing. I’ve only lived in homes built since the 80s, in the Midwest and southeast.
  - dude187 4y ago
    Two knobs is an older style, but lots of single knob style rotate side to side to set temperature and move up and down to set pressure
vineyardmike 4y ago
Most water in California is not used by households. If you make Californians stop showering at all it still wouldn’t solve the problem. I think pressure control in showers could be useful (?) but is ultimately a you issue (who wants less water pressure when showering?). Showering won’t solve Californias issues. It’ll just piss off the electorate. I agree with home landscaping though which is something like 50% of household water. It still only accounts for like 5% of total consumption across the state.
bsder 4y ago

smcg 4y ago

Agriculture consumes the vast majority of CA water. A lot of it is for crops shipped overseas. It is domestic dead weight loss.

musicale 4y ago
Growing high water use crops (alfalfa, rice, cotton, almonds, etc.) for export outside the US doesn't seem like it would be good water policy for California.
arinlen 4y ago
> Agriculture consumes the vast majority of CA water. Just do add some sources: https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ > "Water in California is shared across three main sectors. Statewide, average water use is roughly 50% environmental, 40% agricultural, and 10% urban, although the percentage of water use by sector varies dramatically across regions and between wet and dry years."
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Important note here: "environmental" use is mostly letting the rivers empty into the ocean It's a semantic ploy to make people blame agricultural water usage less.

egberts1 4y ago

Not to mention that they killed off the Auburn Dam project that would nearly double the water supply to Sacramento and San Francisco.

musicale 4y ago

> As California stretches into its third year of drought no. > Since California's unnaturally wet period ended in the early 20th century and the naturally dry state continues to remain dry and become drier every year for the foreseeable future TFTFY

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

Voluntary never works. There are just too many people that don't care and aren't willing to change. Mandatory will only make people mad and a subset will do their best to fight it. The fix is to hike the costs and rebate to those that actually save and those under a certain income or charge a lot more once a household or business uses more than a certain amount of water.