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Such a meaningless article as it does not take battery size into account... Sure your EQS has 444 km but have fun recharging that 107 kwh monster battery... T

by lelag 4y ago

Such a meaningless article as it does not take battery size into account... Sure your EQS has 444 km but have fun recharging that 107 kwh monster battery... The name of the game is efficiency and here are the result in that test: | Model | Range KM | Battery (kwh) | Efficiency | | ------------------------- | -------- | ------------- | ---------- | | Tesla Model 3 Performance | 337 | 75 | 222.55 | | Mercedes EQS | 444 | 107.8 | 242.79 | | VW ID.4 GTX | 332 | 82 | 246.99 | | VW ID.4 Pro | 328 | 82 | 250 | | Audi Q4 e-tron 40 | 326 | 82 | 251.53 | | Audi RS e-tron GT | 367 | 93.4 | 254.5 | | BMW iX xDrive 50 | 434 | 111.5 | 256.91 | | Skoda Enyaq iV80 | 316 | 82 | 259.49 | | Porsche Taycan 4S | 352 | 93.4 | 265.34 | | Ford Mach-E GT | 367 | 98.8 | 269.21 | The real winner is Tesla by a large margin and LR and SR version are ever more efficient than this. Also I find the result of the EQS suspicious low given the weight of the vehicule, whereas the Tesla's consumption is surprisingly high. I don't think it should be over 200wh/km at 130km/h under normal conditions.

kken 4y ago
What unit is "Efficiency" in? Wh/km? It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh. Appears this is engineered to the point. Why is Teslas Efficiency 10% better? My understanding is that they use SiC transistors in their inverter while the MEB uses Silicon IGBTs. A trade-off between reliability (Si), cost (Si), performance (SiC). How much of the difference is caused by this?
- lelag 4y ago
  Yes, wh/km. I don't know why they get better efficiency but I suppose that they still have some significant technological advantages compared to the others.
  - Delphiza 4y ago
    Same as for ICE? Better weight to power ratio. Less drag (aerodynamics, wheels). Plus better EV tech? More efficient power curves. More efficient regenerative braking.
- bjelkeman-again 4y ago
  Efficiency seem to be Wh/km. During the summer, with mixed driving I get about 168 Wh/km, and year round 185 Wh/km in a Tesla Model 3 AWD. Not everyone needs to drive autobahn speed. ;)
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh The table is mixing net (usable capacity) and gross (total capacity) battery sizes. The battery in the ID.4 is 82 kWh gross but 77 kWh usable. The ID.4 is also an SUV model whereas the Model 3 is a sedan.
  - lelag 4y ago
    Well, Tesla also has a buffer after 0% and still some energy after it stop moving. This might be what explain the "bad" figure here. A model 3 at 130km/h on the flat in good weather conditions should not exceed 200wh/km normally. (Based on experience with my own car). My point was that the posted article is non-sense, and likely really just an advertisement piece for the german cars. Claiming the EQS is best because it has a decent range with a 107kwh battery is infuriating. We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles and not make monster 3 tons EV like this.
    - clouddrover 4y ago
      > Tesla also has a buffer after 0% and still some energy after it stop moving. The Model 3 performance is 80 kWh total capacity (82 kWh on the newer ones). > We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles No. People will buy the cars they want. If they want the luxury of an Mercedes EQS then that's what they'll buy. If they want the excess of a Hummer EV then they'll buy that too. There need to be better batteries with greater energy density for a smaller pack weight once decent range is achieved.
      - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
        Amen. Limiting oursleves will never be the answer. It's time for tree huggers to provide the same quality of life of oil. If they can't then it's on them not on the consumer. Time to put up or shut up. The new Cadillac Lyriq is a step in the right direction. But I also must say that the 59,995$ MSRP Gasoline Corvette C8 is a step in the right direction as well. When people dream that's the sort of cars they dream about: attainable luxury of a Lyriq or the attainable C8 which is essentially an affordable Ferrari made in Detroit. People don't want to own a Tesla which is plain on the outside and frankly speaking very empty and low quality once you step inside
reitzensteinm 4y ago
Inside EVs has the EQS charging very quickly, faster than the Model 3 and Model S Plaid. It also seems arbitrary to claim efficiency is the "name of the game". Surely consumers will choose whether they prefer long range, low cost of charging, fast charging etc, and there's no one right answer? https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging...
yread 4y ago
Aren't all these cars (except Ford and Porsche) like a class bigger than Model 3? Id4 has 550l of boot space vs Model 3's 425l. It also sits a lot higher. Of course an SUV will be less efficient (but somehow people still choose to drive them)
- lelag 4y ago
  I don't dispute that. I dispute the fairness of claiming the Model 3 has worse range when it's obviously the most efficient vehicle of the lot and the most appropriate BEV if you care about driving at highway speed.
  - ahahahahah 4y ago
    > I dispute the fairness of claiming the Model 3 has worse range when it's obviously the most efficient vehicle This is a crazy twisting of thought. Like, it's 100% true that the model 3 has worse range. That's like "oh, it's not fair to claim that the model 3 is smaller when it's actually the lightest vehicle". I mean, "oh, it's not fair to claim X about the model 3 because while that's true, on this other metric Y the model 3 ranks differently".
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      They are probably deep into Tesla equity , which clouds the judgement of the cult memeb...ehm I mean shareholders.
smachiz 4y ago
the EQS is like 2000lbs more than a Model 3 - you should compare its efficiency to a similarly sized Model S. Comparing the mileage of cars that are sized wildly different is kind've pointless.

by lelag 4y ago

kken 4y ago

What unit is "Efficiency" in? Wh/km? It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh. Appears this is engineered to the point. Why is Teslas Efficiency 10% better? My understanding is that they use SiC transistors in their inverter while the MEB uses Silicon IGBTs. A trade-off between reliability (Si), cost (Si), performance (SiC). How much of the difference is caused by this?

lelag 4y ago
Yes, wh/km. I don't know why they get better efficiency but I suppose that they still have some significant technological advantages compared to the others.
- Delphiza 4y ago
  Same as for ICE? Better weight to power ratio. Less drag (aerodynamics, wheels). Plus better EV tech? More efficient power curves. More efficient regenerative braking.
bjelkeman-again 4y ago
Efficiency seem to be Wh/km. During the summer, with mixed driving I get about 168 Wh/km, and year round 185 Wh/km in a Tesla Model 3 AWD. Not everyone needs to drive autobahn speed. ;)
clouddrover 4y ago
> It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh The table is mixing net (usable capacity) and gross (total capacity) battery sizes. The battery in the ID.4 is 82 kWh gross but 77 kWh usable. The ID.4 is also an SUV model whereas the Model 3 is a sedan.
- lelag 4y ago
  Well, Tesla also has a buffer after 0% and still some energy after it stop moving. This might be what explain the "bad" figure here. A model 3 at 130km/h on the flat in good weather conditions should not exceed 200wh/km normally. (Based on experience with my own car). My point was that the posted article is non-sense, and likely really just an advertisement piece for the german cars. Claiming the EQS is best because it has a decent range with a 107kwh battery is infuriating. We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles and not make monster 3 tons EV like this.
  - clouddrover 4y ago
    > Tesla also has a buffer after 0% and still some energy after it stop moving. The Model 3 performance is 80 kWh total capacity (82 kWh on the newer ones). > We should be moving to smaller battery on light efficient vehicles No. People will buy the cars they want. If they want the luxury of an Mercedes EQS then that's what they'll buy. If they want the excess of a Hummer EV then they'll buy that too. There need to be better batteries with greater energy density for a smaller pack weight once decent range is achieved.
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      Amen. Limiting oursleves will never be the answer. It's time for tree huggers to provide the same quality of life of oil. If they can't then it's on them not on the consumer. Time to put up or shut up. The new Cadillac Lyriq is a step in the right direction. But I also must say that the 59,995$ MSRP Gasoline Corvette C8 is a step in the right direction as well. When people dream that's the sort of cars they dream about: attainable luxury of a Lyriq or the attainable C8 which is essentially an affordable Ferrari made in Detroit. People don't want to own a Tesla which is plain on the outside and frankly speaking very empty and low quality once you step inside

reitzensteinm 4y ago

Inside EVs has the EQS charging very quickly, faster than the Model 3 and Model S Plaid. It also seems arbitrary to claim efficiency is the "name of the game". Surely consumers will choose whether they prefer long range, low cost of charging, fast charging etc, and there's no one right answer? https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging-analysis/ https://insideevs.com/news/522577/mercedes-eqs-fast-charging...

yread 4y ago

Aren't all these cars (except Ford and Porsche) like a class bigger than Model 3? Id4 has 550l of boot space vs Model 3's 425l. It also sits a lot higher. Of course an SUV will be less efficient (but somehow people still choose to drive them)

lelag 4y ago
I don't dispute that. I dispute the fairness of claiming the Model 3 has worse range when it's obviously the most efficient vehicle of the lot and the most appropriate BEV if you care about driving at highway speed.
- ahahahahah 4y ago
  > I dispute the fairness of claiming the Model 3 has worse range when it's obviously the most efficient vehicle This is a crazy twisting of thought. Like, it's 100% true that the model 3 has worse range. That's like "oh, it's not fair to claim that the model 3 is smaller when it's actually the lightest vehicle". I mean, "oh, it's not fair to claim X about the model 3 because while that's true, on this other metric Y the model 3 ranks differently".
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    They are probably deep into Tesla equity , which clouds the judgement of the cult memeb...ehm I mean shareholders.

smachiz 4y ago

the EQS is like 2000lbs more than a Model 3 - you should compare its efficiency to a similarly sized Model S. Comparing the mileage of cars that are sized wildly different is kind've pointless.