3 ms·

As I mentioned in my post, why aren't third parties successful in places where first past the post isn't an issue (seats where one party doesn't contest it, sea

by bnralt 4y ago

As I mentioned in my post, why aren't third parties successful in places where first past the post isn't an issue (seats where one party doesn't contest it, seats where one party isn't legally allowed to hold them, places that implemented ranked choice voting)? When first past the post is removed we're still not seeing other parties succeed. As to why we only see two parties, I think it's for a couple of reasons. One, the parties are pretty open and just about anyone can run in them, so there's little use for a third party. Two, the two parties have become culturally entrenched - many people see themselves as Democrats or Republicans, not just people who happen to vote for Democrats or Republicans. And three, prominent national third-parties have been run so poorly they've made people more likely to anyone (including independents) over third parties. Independent candidates have actually had much more success (even in places with first past the post) than third-party candidates.

lapcat 4y ago
> prominent national third-parties have been run so poorly they've made people more likely to anyone (including independents) over third parties Could you elaborate on this? It's not clear to me that they are poorly run, especially relative to the two major parties. (I do agree with your overall point though https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31503188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31503188)
- bnralt 4y ago
  A good example is the Reform Party, the most prominent party in the 90's and more successful than the Green Party or Libertarians in many ways (the Reform Party actually won a Governor's seat, and got more presidential votes than the other two ever did). They had a pretty public melting down in the late 90's and now are a non-entity. The Greens and Libertarians have been a mess whenever I've worked with them at the local level. One problem that I've seen, both at a local and national level, is that they keep trying to run as many candidates in as many races as possible, and almost all of these end up being vanity candidates with no interest in winning. We had Green Party candidates here in major races who didn't even bother putting up a website. This just entrenches the idea in people's minds that these parties aren't serious, and are only worthwhile as protest votes. You want to know the most successful third party at the moment in the U.S.? The Vermont Progressive Party. They only operate in Vermont, yet hold more state level offices in Vermont than Greens and Libertarians _combined_ do in the entirety of the United States. Also more independent state level elected officials. We have two independent senators at the moment. Other people from outside the two parties have had much more success than almost all of the third parties. Again, the Vermont Progressive Party is an exception, but it's only active in Vermont. The Working Families Party in New York would count as another exception, though that's a bit more complex given New York's fusion voting.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > A good example is the Reform Party, the most prominent party in the 90's The Reform Party was an extension of Ross Perot, who bought his way into the 1992 presidential election with his own immense wealth, and actually could have won that election — at one point he was leading the polls! — if he didn't have his own personal meltdown during the campaign. Perot ran again in 1996, with lesser results. When Perot faded from the political scene, so did the Reform Party. I would also mention that the Minnesota governor's seat won by the Reform Party was by famous professional wrestler Jesse The Mind/Body Ventura, who was already well-known before the Reform Party even existed. Ventura was elected mayor of Brooklyn Park, Minnesota in 1990, predating the Reform Party, and moreover, Ventura left the Reform Party a year after taking office as governor and joined the Independence Party instead. > You want to know the most successful third party at the moment in the U.S.? The Vermont Progressive Party. Vermont is one of the smallest states in the country by both population and physical size. Campaign fundraising is less of a problem there than in most places that require large spending on TV ads. One of the biggest disadvantages of third parties is lack of money. This is how Ross Perot succeeded where they did not: he had a ton of money.
the_only_law 4y ago
Also the third parties have a history of pushing clowns even worse than the main parties, some of the words out of the mouth of recent Libertarian and Green candidates were clearly not well thought out and ended mostly in the being dragged on the internet.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > Also the third parties have a history of pushing clowns even worse than the main parties My Republican Senator from Wisconsin claimed that mouthwash could kill Covid. There is no worse clown.

by bnralt 4y ago

lapcat 4y ago

> prominent national third-parties have been run so poorly they've made people more likely to anyone (including independents) over third parties Could you elaborate on this? It's not clear to me that they are poorly run, especially relative to the two major parties. (I do agree with your overall point though https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31503188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31503188)

bnralt 4y ago
A good example is the Reform Party, the most prominent party in the 90's and more successful than the Green Party or Libertarians in many ways (the Reform Party actually won a Governor's seat, and got more presidential votes than the other two ever did). They had a pretty public melting down in the late 90's and now are a non-entity. The Greens and Libertarians have been a mess whenever I've worked with them at the local level. One problem that I've seen, both at a local and national level, is that they keep trying to run as many candidates in as many races as possible, and almost all of these end up being vanity candidates with no interest in winning. We had Green Party candidates here in major races who didn't even bother putting up a website. This just entrenches the idea in people's minds that these parties aren't serious, and are only worthwhile as protest votes. You want to know the most successful third party at the moment in the U.S.? The Vermont Progressive Party. They only operate in Vermont, yet hold more state level offices in Vermont than Greens and Libertarians _combined_ do in the entirety of the United States. Also more independent state level elected officials. We have two independent senators at the moment. Other people from outside the two parties have had much more success than almost all of the third parties. Again, the Vermont Progressive Party is an exception, but it's only active in Vermont. The Working Families Party in New York would count as another exception, though that's a bit more complex given New York's fusion voting.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > A good example is the Reform Party, the most prominent party in the 90's The Reform Party was an extension of Ross Perot, who bought his way into the 1992 presidential election with his own immense wealth, and actually could have won that election — at one point he was leading the polls! — if he didn't have his own personal meltdown during the campaign. Perot ran again in 1996, with lesser results. When Perot faded from the political scene, so did the Reform Party. I would also mention that the Minnesota governor's seat won by the Reform Party was by famous professional wrestler Jesse The Mind/Body Ventura, who was already well-known before the Reform Party even existed. Ventura was elected mayor of Brooklyn Park, Minnesota in 1990, predating the Reform Party, and moreover, Ventura left the Reform Party a year after taking office as governor and joined the Independence Party instead. > You want to know the most successful third party at the moment in the U.S.? The Vermont Progressive Party. Vermont is one of the smallest states in the country by both population and physical size. Campaign fundraising is less of a problem there than in most places that require large spending on TV ads. One of the biggest disadvantages of third parties is lack of money. This is how Ross Perot succeeded where they did not: he had a ton of money.

the_only_law 4y ago

Also the third parties have a history of pushing clowns even worse than the main parties, some of the words out of the mouth of recent Libertarian and Green candidates were clearly not well thought out and ended mostly in the being dragged on the internet.

lapcat 4y ago
> Also the third parties have a history of pushing clowns even worse than the main parties My Republican Senator from Wisconsin claimed that mouthwash could kill Covid. There is no worse clown.