25 ms·

Updated Proton, Unified Protection

130 points by jacooper 4y ago

jibcage 4y ago
I hope this redesign leads to their services becoming more mainstream, without alienating their existing user base.
mario_kart_snes 4y ago
In general this seems like a good move. But the last paragraph violates one of my common complaints: using "open source" as a buzz-word: > Proton will always be open source Oh really? Where can I download the source code to run my own Protonmail server? Answer: I can't.
- mikece 4y ago
  May I direct your attention to ProtonMail's GitHub page? https://github.com/ProtonMail https://github.com/ProtonMail
  - mario_kart_snes 4y ago
    Sure, they have some things (arguably low-value, but you may disagree) on GitHub, but they do not have the main protonmail service - where I could run my own Protonmail server - on GitHub.
    - seti0Cha 4y ago
      Setting the bar awfully high there, aren't you? Very few companies open source everything, and I'd say that it's pretty reasonable to say you support open source and open standards despite that.
      - mario_kart_snes 4y ago
        If instead they said "Protonmail supports open source" then I would totally agree with you, but I think my conclusion is fair to draw from their language: "Protonmail will always be open source."
- dgellow 4y ago
  Their clients and import tools are open source, they contribute to a bunch of libraries.
kulikalov 4y ago
Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259) Did Proton redeemed this somehow?
- rank0 4y ago
  They must comply with the legally binding Swiss order. The alternative is shutting down the business. Also note they BEGAN logging the subpoenaed IP AFTER receiving the warrant and notifying the user. They did not have IP logs ready to go. I don’t think anyone actually reads into nuance anymore. The privacy advocates are their own worst enemy. If this bar is too low for you, there’s basically only self hosted GNU software left…
  - kulikalov 4y ago
    Sounds reasonable. > The privacy advocates are their own worst enemy Probably, but Privacy is Proton's motto. I'm just pointing at the controversy.
    - shapefrog 4y ago
- mikece 4y ago
  ProtonMail respects your privacy, but they also respect warrants issued by the Swiss authorities. If you use ProtonVPN (or no VPN) to access ProtonMail then your real IP is recorded and can be turned over. If hiding your real IP address is important than use a different non-logging VPN provider (personally I use Mullvad to access ProtonMail and everything else).
  - RealStickman_ 4y ago
    Using ProtonVPN would have actually been fine. A VPN provider isn't required to hand over real IP adresses of customers in Switzerland.
c0wb0yc0d3r 4y ago
With ProtonMail, can I change the reply-to address on the fly? With Fast Mail, I can edit the address from the compose screen.
- mario_kart_snes 4y ago
  Are you referring to the "from" address or specifically the "reply-to"? You can change the "from" ... I am not sure about keeping the "From" the same but changing "reply-to"
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
joedissmeyer 4y ago
Serious question for HN: What are the opinions on moving a personal family domain on the GSuite Legacy free over to Proton? It seems like the cost is reasonable, 9.99€/month for 15 email addresses and 3 custom domains. I have just one domain and 5 email addresses for my family so I don't need much. Curious to what everyone thinks about Proton or if there might be a better alternative. Side note: I know Proton is based in Switzerland but my family and I are based in the US. Not sure if that is something which would be a problem.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Hmm, I don't think that pricing is right, first you would need a business account so every use can have their independent login. The cheapest option is 7$ per user, which is a big jumb from free. https://proton.me/business/plans https://proton.me/business/plans Otherwise, I think they are really the best private email company. And now with this change, they are the only privacy ecosystem out there, unless you count nextcloud which a different thing and isn't as heavily encrypted as proton. Be aware that proton doesn't offer standard SMTP connections, you need a bridge which is only available on desktop. The same thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is no cardav/caldav sync. I hope they are working on integrating a Dav bridge on desktop and syncing from mobile apps.
  - selykg 4y ago
    >The same thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is no cardav/caldav sync. The lack of CardDav and CalDav are absolute deal breakers for me. If I can't get my contacts and calendars into my preferred apps on my phone there's just no way they'll get adoption from me. I stick with Fastmail because it just works for mail, calendars and contacts across all of my devices and apps.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in Australia, its privacy is pretty limited. > The new law also allows officials to approach specific individuals—such as key employees within a company—with these demands, rather than the institution itself. In practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator in charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to undermine its security. In some situations, the government could even compel the individual or a small group of people to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law, companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who resist could face prison time. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/australia-passes-bill-to-force-tech-firms-to-hand-over-encrypted-data-idUSKBN1O42SR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/a...
flotzam 4y ago
And still no way to anonymously create an account (free or paid): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28435153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28435153 Make of that what you will, after so many years and the nth redesign
- wangler1949 4y ago
  it is. i just created an account on there onion site using only captcha
  - Forbo 4y ago
    No phone number, secondary email, or credit card info was required?
    - wangler1949 4y ago
      "only using captcha" so no
      - Forbo 4y ago
        I just tried to register an account using the onion site. It requires JavaScript, as well as either an email or phone number for SMS. I saw no captcha when attempting to create the account. Edit: https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion/support/human-verification https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... "If you are only given the option of email or SMS verification and would like to avoid using email or SMS verification, it is possible to do so by upgrading to a paid plan using PayPal or Bitcoin." Yeah, I would hardly call any of those options anonymous. Pseudonymous at best.
  - flotzam 4y ago
    Which .onion? The signup link on https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... redirects to their clearnet site. Maybe it redirected you too and you landed on that one mythical Tor exit node not yet blocked by Proton, which is always rumored to exist (but I've never seen it)
odiroot 4y ago
I wish U2F was supported instead of just TOTP
- jacooper 4y ago
  This change would supposedly enable this.
  - odiroot 4y ago
    I'm very glad to hear it!
jacooper 4y ago
Personally I'm still looking forward to the new android app, as the current one is pretty crappy. I'm using the beta app and everything is good but it still doesn't support conversation view. (I have yet to find any open source android email app which looks as modern as proton's, maybe AOSP email?) They have also bought [SimpelLogin](https://simplelogin.io https://simplelogin.io), the email aliasing service, and promised that SL would be intgersted in the plus plans when SL Is merged into proton in 2-3 months. I'm hoping that they keep multiple domain support, even though I doubt it will happen. As for proton calendar, its usability for me is pretty limited until they enable syncing with the OS on mobile and offer a Caldav server with desktop bridge. If they would also offer contact sync that would be super!
- neltnerb 4y ago
  After five years waiting for them to implement swipe to move forward and backwards in your inbox rather than having to click and wait multiple times to move to the next message, and the same amount of time waiting for it to let me automatically open the next message after deleting the one I'm on... Moving my email via IMAP bridge into ProtonMail resulted in many many messages being corrupted (they show HTML as TXT instead of rendering it) and duplicated. I finally literally gave up a week ago and switched to Fastmail and am already so much happier. It's annoying, I really wanted to love Protonmail but they just do this window dressing nonsense with updated logos and website design instead of making the core product work better. I can't deal with it anymore. It's very sad to me, I was one of their first customers :-(
  - jacooper 4y ago
    interesting, I had none of these issues. just a reminder that Fastmail is based in Australia. However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in Australia, its privacy is pretty limited. > The new law also allows officials to approach specific individuals—such as key employees within a company—with these demands, rather than the institution itself. In practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator in charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to undermine its security. In some situations, the government could even compel the individual or a small group of people to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law, companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who resist could face prison time. www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/australia-passes-bill-to-force-tech-firms-to-hand-over-encrypted-data-idUSKBN1O42SR
ipspam 4y ago
I have been using Proton products for years now. VPN is top notch at the paid level, and email is pretty great. Don't know what else to say, it's good stuff.
- Fnoord 4y ago
  It took them ages to support Wireguard. I went with AirVPN a few years ago. They had support for Wireguard, and a sweet BF deal.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    I switched to mullvad for a similar reason.
CobaltFire 4y ago
Looks like Visionary has been sunsetted for new subscriptions. This must be recent, as it was live a week or two ago. A note for anyone recommending ProtonMail as that changes the calculus for many.
- cge 4y ago
  That change was, as far as I can tell, it was done without any prior announcement (it is announced on the new website). Unfortunately, I had been trying over last few days to figure out the best way to move my currently partially self-hosted setup to ProtonMail, and the only feasible way to do so would likely have been with the Visionary plan. ProtonMail's sudden removal of it means that I likely won't be able to switch to them, and will likely end up removing my current Professional plan. With its removal, there is no non-business plan with multiple mailboxes. It also appears that the ability to pay additional fees per item for extra custom domains, addresses, and other features has been removed. As such, if you need more than what the largest plan offers on these (eg, you need what the old Visionary plan offered), this now appears impossible.
  - CobaltFire 4y ago
    I just got the email, see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489
    - dsitspl 4y ago
shever73 4y ago
I'm definitely happy that my €6 per month subscription has been upgraded to Proton Unlimited. The storage boost for email is more than I'd ever use, but the ability to add more custom domains is a definite win in my book.
- jacooper 4y ago
  You very lucky my friend. I am a plus subscriber, and other than more storage nothing has changed.
  - coffeeblack 4y ago
    More email addresses. And a catch-all for custom domain.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      catch-all for such a limited amount of aliases is not that useful.
      - coffeeblack 4y ago
        For me it is. A catch-all for my domain was the one thing I was missing. Not sure what that has to do with the number of email aliases.
    - brewdad 4y ago
      More email addresses but they all dump into the same inbox, correct? I've been a VPN subscriber, so haven't really played around with the mail side too much.
      - coffeeblack 4y ago
        Same inbox, yes. But you can always use filters to have them show up in different folders instead of the default inbox folder.
  - 4y ago
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
When the calendar supports invitations, and Mail, Contacts + Calendar support delegation, I'm switching back from Microsoft.
- sexy_panda 4y ago
  Could be a hard thing to implement. The calender would need access to encrypted mails.
- heywoodlh 4y ago
  For those who like using other mail clients there is the official Protonmail Bridge[1] (for paid customers). There is also Hydroxide[2] (which I use). I am able to use Apple Mail on mobile, Aerc[3] command line mail client on desktop (MacOS and Linux), and sync with the CardDav instance for contacts. Understandably, this is not an ideal solution for everyone -- it works awesome for me! Just a PSA for those not aware. [1] https://proton.me/mail/bridge https://proton.me/mail/bridge [2] https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide [3] https://aerc-mail.org/ https://aerc-mail.org/
mark_l_watson 4y ago
I am a long time paying customer. Good to see improvements. The one thing that keeps me from using Proton as my primary email is lack of email/calendar integration. When I get an email with an invite, I would like that to appear auto-magically on my calendar. When I assign my custom domain to Proton and use it heavily for a few months, this is what eventually makes me switch back to Apple/Gmail/FastMail.
- nullbytesmatter 4y ago
  Mm, I am a paid customer as well. I use proton mail exclusively and I like the calendar. You can add events to your calendar from an email/invite. I also share calendars with non-proton users (my wife uses user iPhone/calendar app). I haven't had any issues with it.
- toxicFork 4y ago
  I was working on a side project to do exactly this, including emails from Airbnb, hotel and flight bookings, but for fastmail :) I will check if I still have the code... I gave up on it because I wasn't sure how to solve potential privacy issues or concerns if I wanted others to be able to use it.
- zucked 4y ago
  I was a paid customer, and I still support ProtonMail's mission, but the app experience drove me to cancel my paid subscription and go with FastMail instead. The mobile client and desktop were never in sync; I'd swipe an email to archive and it'd show back up in the inbox, etc. It happened time and time and time again and I got sick of it having to clean up after their messy app.
Fnoord 4y ago
So much faith in the government of Montenegro, eh? Not optional anymore means I don't like it. Also, what is the incentive as a previously paying customer to return? I see none. It does not seem to be loyal customers but current ones. So someone who subscribed last month or a few days ago (for however long) gets more benefit than me a multi year former user. OK, so where is the incentive to make me a returning customer?
- brewdad 4y ago
  Every other company on the planet seems to go with the 'screw the current loyal users, let's offer great deals for new customers only' model. One company finally does it the other way and you complain. This is the way every company should operate.
  - Fnoord 4y ago
    While it might be rare Humble Bundle did it as well, but then I was on the beneficiary side. My question still remains: what's my incentive to return? I get no deal whatsoever. I pay about 2 EUR a month for AirVPN as it is, and I switched to them because they had Wireguard support.
- kortheo 4y ago
  What are you referring to? What is their affiliation with Montenegro, and what is no longer optional? Edit: Also in terms of incentives, is there another decent email provider that offers the same suite of services (end-to-end encrypted email that won't data mine you and serve ads to you?). That's still the main draw for me.
  - Fnoord 4y ago
    The country of Montenegro is the owner of the .me ccTLD. Protonmail is proprietary (given the JavaScript served cannot be audited), and because it does not use an open standard. Both Posteo and Tutanota are alternatives which don't profile you but whether they suit your needs is up to you. Hosted in Germany.
bitL 4y ago
Dubai government servers are bouncing mails originating from protonmail.com. Will proton.me bypass this?
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  Unlikely, I doubt their IT is that incompetent to not block any new DNS entry associated with Proton
- jacooper 4y ago
  use a custom domain, it works most of the time. however its nothing out of the ordinary to expect from the UAE.
geewee 4y ago
I'm a medium-happy Protonmail user. I really wish they'd step up their core services - give us the ability to snooze emails, schedule sends for later - all of the stuff you can do in Gmail, Outlook or other modern mail clients. It's such a hard time, because I reeeeally want to like the service, but I feel like they make it so hard
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  This is one reason I use proton bridge and thunderbird.
  - benf76 4y ago
    Which plugins do you use for thunderbird to snooze? The only one I found only worked on a prior, not up to date version of TB.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DavideNL 4y ago
So the "Plus" plan no longer exists, and the only way to get more than 1 Vpn connection is now to get "Unlimited" which is even more expensive at €11.99 What was the price of "Plus" before this change, i think something like €8 or €10 ?
- jacooper 4y ago
  which plus ? the email plus still exists. and that 7$ vpn+email offer is still there, however its for 2years
butz 4y ago
Great, even more different products using same names. I understand the idea of uniting all different Proton services under the same name, but now Proton (Mail and other services) and Proton (SteamPlay, from Valve) will be hard to differentiate in short news headlines. Similarly as with Unity (Ubuntu desktop environment) and Unity (game engine).
pentagrama 4y ago
And now that the login page https://account.protonmail.com/login https://account.protonmail.com/login redirects to https://account.proton.me/login https://account.proton.me/login, my Firefox pass manager do not autofill the login anymore, I believe that is a UX nightmare for non advanced users. And to be honest, I don't know the best way to avoid UX problems when a service change domains. I mean, besides that many users will lost access/do the reset pass process because of that, the experience to fix this as a user is: go to the pass manager, copy the credentials from the old domain, go to the new login page and paste it, save it as in the new domain, and delete the old domain saved credentials, because that will be saved there forever with no propose and confusing users with duplicated login information. I guess more advanced password managers maybe notify about domain changes? But at least Firefox and I suppose Chrome, which is massive, don't have that.
- peblos 4y ago
  1password browser adding needs you to add an extra url against the stored login. Not a problem imo, very rarely does a service change domain like this. This is the case for the safari addin, but Im sure Chrome and others will be the same A more frequent problem is where a site will authenticate you against some other domain or URL, so its something Ive had to do before and I think someone using 1pass or similar should be able to do Mobile app lets you search for an existing login when one isn't found for the new domain. After you give it permission to autofill, it will continue to do so
- woobilicious 4y ago
  If the service gives a 301/308 response, it should in theory rewrite all bookmarks and things like this, but that also opens up security issues especially when it comes to password managers.
threatofrain 4y ago
Proton is currently sending out a marketing email blast in multiple languages but without any unsubscribe button.
- jacooper 4y ago
  its available in the account settings
nikolay 4y ago
Kudos for taking the baton and maintaining https://github.com/ProtonMail/go-crypto https://github.com/ProtonMail/go-crypto which should replace Keybase's fork everywhere. Terraform and providers such as AWS now use it instead.
ajvs 4y ago
They treat Linux users like shit. Unlike their VPN apps on other platforms it still lacks WireGuard, split tunnelling, profiles, etc.
kylehotchkiss 4y ago
ProtonDrive excites me the most. The only other user friendly end to end encrypted cloud storage provider is Tresorit, who are overpriced for consumers. Please note I don’t consider Boxcryptor in the same category as they just serve as an encrypting proxy between you and cloud storage. I wish ProtonDrive would explain more about their data resilience, whether they maintain custodian keys or any ability to access customer data, how access works when traveling across borders, etc. otherwise iCloud Drive and Boxcryptor are a stronger choice.
- jacooper 4y ago
  there is mega.nz, and they pretty good, and now they are working on encrypted object storage too!
pxc 4y ago
Can you use your own PGP key on ProtonMail without uploading your private key to them yet?
ChrisArchitect 4y ago
For even more impact, this might have been a better play to roll out a bit earlier before Google started announcing/clarifying their free tier Workspaces arrangements for all the users that were freaking out and didn't already jump ship to protonmail to save their custom domain email setup. A bit earlier and this would have drawn attention of alot more of those users who now will just be staying with Google's offering.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Maybe, but this change isn't because of Google, it has Been In developement for months and the goal is to make it one login portal so they can implement things like webauthn easily.
dimensionc132 4y ago

130 points by jacooper 4y ago

I hope this redesign leads to their services becoming more mainstream, without alienating their existing user base.

In general this seems like a good move. But the last paragraph violates one of my common complaints: using "open source" as a buzz-word: > Proton will always be open source Oh really? Where can I download the source code to run my own Protonmail server? Answer: I can't.

mikece 4y ago
May I direct your attention to ProtonMail's GitHub page? https://github.com/ProtonMail https://github.com/ProtonMail
- mario_kart_snes 4y ago
  Sure, they have some things (arguably low-value, but you may disagree) on GitHub, but they do not have the main protonmail service - where I could run my own Protonmail server - on GitHub.
  - seti0Cha 4y ago
    Setting the bar awfully high there, aren't you? Very few companies open source everything, and I'd say that it's pretty reasonable to say you support open source and open standards despite that.
    - mario_kart_snes 4y ago
      If instead they said "Protonmail supports open source" then I would totally agree with you, but I think my conclusion is fair to draw from their language: "Protonmail will always be open source."
dgellow 4y ago
Their clients and import tools are open source, they contribute to a bunch of libraries.

kulikalov 4y ago

Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP address (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259) Did Proton redeemed this somehow?

rank0 4y ago
They must comply with the legally binding Swiss order. The alternative is shutting down the business. Also note they BEGAN logging the subpoenaed IP AFTER receiving the warrant and notifying the user. They did not have IP logs ready to go. I don’t think anyone actually reads into nuance anymore. The privacy advocates are their own worst enemy. If this bar is too low for you, there’s basically only self hosted GNU software left…
- kulikalov 4y ago
  Sounds reasonable. > The privacy advocates are their own worst enemy Probably, but Privacy is Proton's motto. I'm just pointing at the controversy.
  - shapefrog 4y ago
mikece 4y ago
ProtonMail respects your privacy, but they also respect warrants issued by the Swiss authorities. If you use ProtonVPN (or no VPN) to access ProtonMail then your real IP is recorded and can be turned over. If hiding your real IP address is important than use a different non-logging VPN provider (personally I use Mullvad to access ProtonMail and everything else).
- RealStickman_ 4y ago
  Using ProtonVPN would have actually been fine. A VPN provider isn't required to hand over real IP adresses of customers in Switzerland.

c0wb0yc0d3r 4y ago

With ProtonMail, can I change the reply-to address on the fly? With Fast Mail, I can edit the address from the compose screen.

mario_kart_snes 4y ago
Are you referring to the "from" address or specifically the "reply-to"? You can change the "from" ... I am not sure about keeping the "From" the same but changing "reply-to"

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

joedissmeyer 4y ago

Serious question for HN: What are the opinions on moving a personal family domain on the GSuite Legacy free over to Proton? It seems like the cost is reasonable, 9.99€/month for 15 email addresses and 3 custom domains. I have just one domain and 5 email addresses for my family so I don't need much. Curious to what everyone thinks about Proton or if there might be a better alternative. Side note: I know Proton is based in Switzerland but my family and I are based in the US. Not sure if that is something which would be a problem.

jacooper 4y ago
Hmm, I don't think that pricing is right, first you would need a business account so every use can have their independent login. The cheapest option is 7$ per user, which is a big jumb from free. https://proton.me/business/plans https://proton.me/business/plans Otherwise, I think they are really the best private email company. And now with this change, they are the only privacy ecosystem out there, unless you count nextcloud which a different thing and isn't as heavily encrypted as proton. Be aware that proton doesn't offer standard SMTP connections, you need a bridge which is only available on desktop. The same thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is no cardav/caldav sync. I hope they are working on integrating a Dav bridge on desktop and syncing from mobile apps.
- selykg 4y ago
  >The same thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is no cardav/caldav sync. The lack of CardDav and CalDav are absolute deal breakers for me. If I can't get my contacts and calendars into my preferred apps on my phone there's just no way they'll get adoption from me. I stick with Fastmail because it just works for mail, calendars and contacts across all of my devices and apps.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in Australia, its privacy is pretty limited. > The new law also allows officials to approach specific individuals—such as key employees within a company—with these demands, rather than the institution itself. In practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator in charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to undermine its security. In some situations, the government could even compel the individual or a small group of people to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law, companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who resist could face prison time. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/australia-passes-bill-to-force-tech-firms-to-hand-over-encrypted-data-idUSKBN1O42SR https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/a...

flotzam 4y ago

And still no way to anonymously create an account (free or paid): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28435153 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28435153 Make of that what you will, after so many years and the nth redesign

wangler1949 4y ago
it is. i just created an account on there onion site using only captcha
- Forbo 4y ago
  No phone number, secondary email, or credit card info was required?
  - wangler1949 4y ago
    "only using captcha" so no
    - Forbo 4y ago
      I just tried to register an account using the onion site. It requires JavaScript, as well as either an email or phone number for SMS. I saw no captcha when attempting to create the account. Edit: https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion/support/human-verification https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... "If you are only given the option of email or SMS verification and would like to avoid using email or SMS verification, it is possible to do so by upgrading to a paid plan using PayPal or Bitcoin." Yeah, I would hardly call any of those options anonymous. Pseudonymous at best.
- flotzam 4y ago
  Which .onion? The signup link on https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7ozyd.onion https://protonmailrmez3lotccipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... redirects to their clearnet site. Maybe it redirected you too and you landed on that one mythical Tor exit node not yet blocked by Proton, which is always rumored to exist (but I've never seen it)

odiroot 4y ago

I wish U2F was supported instead of just TOTP

jacooper 4y ago
This change would supposedly enable this.
- odiroot 4y ago
  I'm very glad to hear it!

jacooper 4y ago

Personally I'm still looking forward to the new android app, as the current one is pretty crappy. I'm using the beta app and everything is good but it still doesn't support conversation view. (I have yet to find any open source android email app which looks as modern as proton's, maybe AOSP email?) They have also bought [SimpelLogin](https://simplelogin.io https://simplelogin.io), the email aliasing service, and promised that SL would be intgersted in the plus plans when SL Is merged into proton in 2-3 months. I'm hoping that they keep multiple domain support, even though I doubt it will happen. As for proton calendar, its usability for me is pretty limited until they enable syncing with the OS on mobile and offer a Caldav server with desktop bridge. If they would also offer contact sync that would be super!

neltnerb 4y ago
After five years waiting for them to implement swipe to move forward and backwards in your inbox rather than having to click and wait multiple times to move to the next message, and the same amount of time waiting for it to let me automatically open the next message after deleting the one I'm on... Moving my email via IMAP bridge into ProtonMail resulted in many many messages being corrupted (they show HTML as TXT instead of rendering it) and duplicated. I finally literally gave up a week ago and switched to Fastmail and am already so much happier. It's annoying, I really wanted to love Protonmail but they just do this window dressing nonsense with updated logos and website design instead of making the core product work better. I can't deal with it anymore. It's very sad to me, I was one of their first customers :-(
- jacooper 4y ago
  interesting, I had none of these issues. just a reminder that Fastmail is based in Australia. However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in Australia, its privacy is pretty limited. > The new law also allows officials to approach specific individuals—such as key employees within a company—with these demands, rather than the institution itself. In practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator in charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to undermine its security. In some situations, the government could even compel the individual or a small group of people to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law, companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who resist could face prison time. www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/australia-passes-bill-to-force-tech-firms-to-hand-over-encrypted-data-idUSKBN1O42SR

ipspam 4y ago

I have been using Proton products for years now. VPN is top notch at the paid level, and email is pretty great. Don't know what else to say, it's good stuff.

Fnoord 4y ago
It took them ages to support Wireguard. I went with AirVPN a few years ago. They had support for Wireguard, and a sweet BF deal.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  I switched to mullvad for a similar reason.

CobaltFire 4y ago

Looks like Visionary has been sunsetted for new subscriptions. This must be recent, as it was live a week or two ago. A note for anyone recommending ProtonMail as that changes the calculus for many.

cge 4y ago
That change was, as far as I can tell, it was done without any prior announcement (it is announced on the new website). Unfortunately, I had been trying over last few days to figure out the best way to move my currently partially self-hosted setup to ProtonMail, and the only feasible way to do so would likely have been with the Visionary plan. ProtonMail's sudden removal of it means that I likely won't be able to switch to them, and will likely end up removing my current Professional plan. With its removal, there is no non-business plan with multiple mailboxes. It also appears that the ability to pay additional fees per item for extra custom domains, addresses, and other features has been removed. As such, if you need more than what the largest plan offers on these (eg, you need what the old Visionary plan offered), this now appears impossible.
- CobaltFire 4y ago
  I just got the email, see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489
  - dsitspl 4y ago

shever73 4y ago

I'm definitely happy that my €6 per month subscription has been upgraded to Proton Unlimited. The storage boost for email is more than I'd ever use, but the ability to add more custom domains is a definite win in my book.

jacooper 4y ago
You very lucky my friend. I am a plus subscriber, and other than more storage nothing has changed.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  More email addresses. And a catch-all for custom domain.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    catch-all for such a limited amount of aliases is not that useful.
    - coffeeblack 4y ago
      For me it is. A catch-all for my domain was the one thing I was missing. Not sure what that has to do with the number of email aliases.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    More email addresses but they all dump into the same inbox, correct? I've been a VPN subscriber, so haven't really played around with the mail side too much.
    - coffeeblack 4y ago
      Same inbox, yes. But you can always use filters to have them show up in different folders instead of the default inbox folder.
- 4y ago

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

When the calendar supports invitations, and Mail, Contacts + Calendar support delegation, I'm switching back from Microsoft.

sexy_panda 4y ago
Could be a hard thing to implement. The calender would need access to encrypted mails.
heywoodlh 4y ago
For those who like using other mail clients there is the official Protonmail Bridge[1] (for paid customers). There is also Hydroxide[2] (which I use). I am able to use Apple Mail on mobile, Aerc[3] command line mail client on desktop (MacOS and Linux), and sync with the CardDav instance for contacts. Understandably, this is not an ideal solution for everyone -- it works awesome for me! Just a PSA for those not aware. [1] https://proton.me/mail/bridge https://proton.me/mail/bridge [2] https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide [3] https://aerc-mail.org/ https://aerc-mail.org/

mark_l_watson 4y ago

I am a long time paying customer. Good to see improvements. The one thing that keeps me from using Proton as my primary email is lack of email/calendar integration. When I get an email with an invite, I would like that to appear auto-magically on my calendar. When I assign my custom domain to Proton and use it heavily for a few months, this is what eventually makes me switch back to Apple/Gmail/FastMail.

nullbytesmatter 4y ago
Mm, I am a paid customer as well. I use proton mail exclusively and I like the calendar. You can add events to your calendar from an email/invite. I also share calendars with non-proton users (my wife uses user iPhone/calendar app). I haven't had any issues with it.
toxicFork 4y ago
I was working on a side project to do exactly this, including emails from Airbnb, hotel and flight bookings, but for fastmail :) I will check if I still have the code... I gave up on it because I wasn't sure how to solve potential privacy issues or concerns if I wanted others to be able to use it.
zucked 4y ago
I was a paid customer, and I still support ProtonMail's mission, but the app experience drove me to cancel my paid subscription and go with FastMail instead. The mobile client and desktop were never in sync; I'd swipe an email to archive and it'd show back up in the inbox, etc. It happened time and time and time again and I got sick of it having to clean up after their messy app.

Fnoord 4y ago

So much faith in the government of Montenegro, eh? Not optional anymore means I don't like it. Also, what is the incentive as a previously paying customer to return? I see none. It does not seem to be loyal customers but current ones. So someone who subscribed last month or a few days ago (for however long) gets more benefit than me a multi year former user. OK, so where is the incentive to make me a returning customer?

brewdad 4y ago
Every other company on the planet seems to go with the 'screw the current loyal users, let's offer great deals for new customers only' model. One company finally does it the other way and you complain. This is the way every company should operate.
- Fnoord 4y ago
  While it might be rare Humble Bundle did it as well, but then I was on the beneficiary side. My question still remains: what's my incentive to return? I get no deal whatsoever. I pay about 2 EUR a month for AirVPN as it is, and I switched to them because they had Wireguard support.
kortheo 4y ago
What are you referring to? What is their affiliation with Montenegro, and what is no longer optional? Edit: Also in terms of incentives, is there another decent email provider that offers the same suite of services (end-to-end encrypted email that won't data mine you and serve ads to you?). That's still the main draw for me.
- Fnoord 4y ago
  The country of Montenegro is the owner of the .me ccTLD. Protonmail is proprietary (given the JavaScript served cannot be audited), and because it does not use an open standard. Both Posteo and Tutanota are alternatives which don't profile you but whether they suit your needs is up to you. Hosted in Germany.

bitL 4y ago

Dubai government servers are bouncing mails originating from protonmail.com. Will proton.me bypass this?

stjohnswarts 4y ago
Unlikely, I doubt their IT is that incompetent to not block any new DNS entry associated with Proton
jacooper 4y ago
use a custom domain, it works most of the time. however its nothing out of the ordinary to expect from the UAE.

geewee 4y ago

I'm a medium-happy Protonmail user. I really wish they'd step up their core services - give us the ability to snooze emails, schedule sends for later - all of the stuff you can do in Gmail, Outlook or other modern mail clients. It's such a hard time, because I reeeeally want to like the service, but I feel like they make it so hard

stjohnswarts 4y ago
This is one reason I use proton bridge and thunderbird.
- benf76 4y ago
  Which plugins do you use for thunderbird to snooze? The only one I found only worked on a prior, not up to date version of TB.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

DavideNL 4y ago

So the "Plus" plan no longer exists, and the only way to get more than 1 Vpn connection is now to get "Unlimited" which is even more expensive at €11.99 What was the price of "Plus" before this change, i think something like €8 or €10 ?

jacooper 4y ago
which plus ? the email plus still exists. and that 7$ vpn+email offer is still there, however its for 2years

butz 4y ago

Great, even more different products using same names. I understand the idea of uniting all different Proton services under the same name, but now Proton (Mail and other services) and Proton (SteamPlay, from Valve) will be hard to differentiate in short news headlines. Similarly as with Unity (Ubuntu desktop environment) and Unity (game engine).

pentagrama 4y ago

And now that the login page https://account.protonmail.com/login https://account.protonmail.com/login redirects to https://account.proton.me/login https://account.proton.me/login, my Firefox pass manager do not autofill the login anymore, I believe that is a UX nightmare for non advanced users. And to be honest, I don't know the best way to avoid UX problems when a service change domains. I mean, besides that many users will lost access/do the reset pass process because of that, the experience to fix this as a user is: go to the pass manager, copy the credentials from the old domain, go to the new login page and paste it, save it as in the new domain, and delete the old domain saved credentials, because that will be saved there forever with no propose and confusing users with duplicated login information. I guess more advanced password managers maybe notify about domain changes? But at least Firefox and I suppose Chrome, which is massive, don't have that.

peblos 4y ago
1password browser adding needs you to add an extra url against the stored login. Not a problem imo, very rarely does a service change domain like this. This is the case for the safari addin, but Im sure Chrome and others will be the same A more frequent problem is where a site will authenticate you against some other domain or URL, so its something Ive had to do before and I think someone using 1pass or similar should be able to do Mobile app lets you search for an existing login when one isn't found for the new domain. After you give it permission to autofill, it will continue to do so
woobilicious 4y ago
If the service gives a 301/308 response, it should in theory rewrite all bookmarks and things like this, but that also opens up security issues especially when it comes to password managers.

threatofrain 4y ago

Proton is currently sending out a marketing email blast in multiple languages but without any unsubscribe button.

jacooper 4y ago
its available in the account settings

nikolay 4y ago

Kudos for taking the baton and maintaining https://github.com/ProtonMail/go-crypto https://github.com/ProtonMail/go-crypto which should replace Keybase's fork everywhere. Terraform and providers such as AWS now use it instead.

ajvs 4y ago

They treat Linux users like shit. Unlike their VPN apps on other platforms it still lacks WireGuard, split tunnelling, profiles, etc.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago

ProtonDrive excites me the most. The only other user friendly end to end encrypted cloud storage provider is Tresorit, who are overpriced for consumers. Please note I don’t consider Boxcryptor in the same category as they just serve as an encrypting proxy between you and cloud storage. I wish ProtonDrive would explain more about their data resilience, whether they maintain custodian keys or any ability to access customer data, how access works when traveling across borders, etc. otherwise iCloud Drive and Boxcryptor are a stronger choice.

jacooper 4y ago
there is mega.nz, and they pretty good, and now they are working on encrypted object storage too!

pxc 4y ago

Can you use your own PGP key on ProtonMail without uploading your private key to them yet?

ChrisArchitect 4y ago

For even more impact, this might have been a better play to roll out a bit earlier before Google started announcing/clarifying their free tier Workspaces arrangements for all the users that were freaking out and didn't already jump ship to protonmail to save their custom domain email setup. A bit earlier and this would have drawn attention of alot more of those users who now will just be staying with Google's offering.

jacooper 4y ago
Maybe, but this change isn't because of Google, it has Been In developement for months and the goal is to make it one login portal so they can implement things like webauthn easily.

dimensionc132 4y ago