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Never underestimate the power of hype. I think ID.4 is a significantly better car and I trust the manufacturer much more than Tesla. But the average guy on the

Never underestimate the power of hype. I think ID.4 is a significantly better car and I trust the manufacturer much more than Tesla. But the average guy on the street doesn't even know about this car.

panick21_ 4y ago
So you have much more trust in the manufactures who pulled a global scam against the environment? And if you go look at the breakdown of the two cars, there isn't really anything that makes the ID.4 stand out in terms of technology. And in terms of software/electronics its clearly not as advanced, VM even clearly admits this. Its better value to be sure.
- bsagdiyev 4y ago
  I trust VW more than I trust Elon, yes.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    People who schemed to harm the environment for profit while Tesla was trying to develop the technology base to help seem like a pretty clear indicator who is more trustworthy. But I guess one person is douche on twitter and that whats most important.
    - bsagdiyev 4y ago
      Yeah that's not why I trust Elon less than VW but go on. Tell me why I, me, have this opinion. Since you know me.
      - panick21_ 4y ago
        Ok, so what did he do that is worse then a global conspiracy to subvert environment regulations that did huge amounts of harm to millions of people, specially children in cities? My guess is you don't like their handling of developing FSD. That seems to be the most often mentioned on here.
        danuker 4y ago
        > FSD To be fair, even the name is misleading. It's not fully-self-driving.
        rank0 4y ago
        How about his blatant securities fraud(s), horrendous Vegas loop, constant lies, blocking unionizations, paid beta test “FSD”, pumping dogecoin, teslas removal from ESG…I could go on forever.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        > blatant securities fraud(s) Yeah, a dispute with the SEC about the meaning of a twit is much more important for the world then the millions of children breathing unhealthy air. Really details of security law that basically hurt nobody except some short term traders as most really is the most important thing in the world. > horrendous Vegas loop Seems like that is for the costumer to decide and they were happy and even want to extend the system. But I guess twitters opinion > pumping dogecoin Talking about something you like is not illegal. In fact by just mentioning dogecoin you made it more famous and pumped it. Unless you can prove pump-and-dump scheme its totally irrelevant. > teslas removal from ESG You mean the index where oil companies are ESG compliant and Tesla isn't. Yeah that really is far more important then lying millions of cars gas output. Like, why would you even care about that?
        rank0 4y ago
        > Yeah, a dispute with the SEC about the meaning of a twit is much more important for the world then the millions of children breathing unhealthy air. Really details of security law that basically hurt nobody except some short term traders… Wow. Is this the kind of society you want? One where the richest man in the world can profit from securities fraud? If us peons can’t commit fraud, neither should Elon. Shit, by your logic we should all be out committing financial crimes right now! FYI it wasn’t a dispute he settled for 20MM, but he’s rich enough to not care. Don’t forget about about solar city, where musk knowingly purchased a distressed company owned by his cousin without disclosing the info to shareholders. Add nepotism to my list please. Also note his ongoing twitter acquisition. He’s clearly manipulating the stock price to get a better deal AFTER agreeing to the purchase and waiving due diligence. He’s being sued. On the Vegas loop, he delivered nothing close to what was promised. The carbon/man hours expended building that horribly inefficient Tesla advertisement could’ve been used to created a reasonable transit system. On dogecoin…lol. You can’t be serious. He’s promoting an obvious joke as a serious financial asset to uneducated, poor “investors”. Dogecoin is down 90%. Thanks for ignoring the FSD beta testing and union stuff. He’s been accused of sexual misconduct, called that Thai dude a pedo, and became ultra rich off countless empty promises. We were supposed to have FSD, a mars colony, neuralink and a hyper loop by now. He’s sold bullshit all the way to the top and STILL receives subsidies from the government…then turns around and sells them to the polluting auto companies he claims to replace.
- Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
  > So you have much more trust in the manufactures who pulled a global scam against the environment? Better to lie to the detriment of the environment than to the detriment of the consumer like Tesla does. What VW did is essentially what developing countries do for their citizens by declaring bogus CO2 numbers in order to make the IPCC/UN/COP happy and keep granting the welfare and quality of life of their citizens providing energy they badly need to live like they deserve. Too bad they got caught, hopefully the model can be replicated by TATA and Great Wall Co. Ltd as well as other car manufacturers which are located in jurisdictions which are not subject to the ESG tyranny.
  - naveen99 4y ago
    The lure of lying is you can ignore reality all together. You can even pretend you didn’t get caught lying. You can pretend people still trust you or listen to you.
    - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
      I only trust Volvo more than VW because they have a track record of caring about safety. Vehicles aren't a societal purchase, they are an individual's purchase. They should maximize the welfare of the individual who pays up the money. I'd be disappointed if VW didn't keep researching ways to get around emission targets for the benefit of the consumer and against ESG tyranny.
- BucketsMcG 4y ago
  Tesla faked swappable batteries to con millions (billions?) in carbon credits out of the California state government, if we want to talk about environment scams.
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Sorry but that is nonsense. The Carbon Credits have nothing to do with swappable batteries. They got some money to demonstrate the technology and they did. They never committed or were required rolling this technology out on a large scale. And it was really not that much money. If that is the example you go to, you are really deep in the barrel to come up with something.
belter 4y ago
Approximately two months ago AutoBild made a range test with several models. "German AutoBild March 2022 – EV Range Test at Highway Speed" (In German): https://www.autobild.de/artikel/e-auto-autobahn-reichweite-test-tempo-130-km-h-20977681.html https://www.autobild.de/artikel/e-auto-autobahn-reichweite-t... They Tested 28 Models - Top 10: --------------------------------------------- Mercedes EQS -> 444 km ( 276 Miles) BMW iX xDrive 50 -> 434 km ( 270 Miles) Ford Mach-E GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles) Audi RS e-tron GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles) Porsche Taycan 4S -> 352 km ( 219 Miles) Tesla Model 3 Performance -> 337 km ( 209 Miles) VW ID.4 GTX -> 332 km ( 206 Miles) VW ID.4 Pro -> 328 km ( 204 Miles) Audi Q4 e-tron 40 -> 326 km ( 203 Miles) Skoda Enyaq iV80 -> 316 km ( 196 Miles) ---------------------------------------------
- lelag 4y ago
  Such a meaningless article as it does not take battery size into account... Sure your EQS has 444 km but have fun recharging that 107 kwh monster battery... The name of the game is efficiency and here are the result in that test: | Model | Range KM | Battery (kwh) | Efficiency | | ------------------------- | -------- | ------------- | ---------- | | Tesla Model 3 Performance | 337 | 75 | 222.55 | | Mercedes EQS | 444 | 107.8 | 242.79 | | VW ID.4 GTX | 332 | 82 | 246.99 | | VW ID.4 Pro | 328 | 82 | 250 | | Audi Q4 e-tron 40 | 326 | 82 | 251.53 | | Audi RS e-tron GT | 367 | 93.4 | 254.5 | | BMW iX xDrive 50 | 434 | 111.5 | 256.91 | | Skoda Enyaq iV80 | 316 | 82 | 259.49 | | Porsche Taycan 4S | 352 | 93.4 | 265.34 | | Ford Mach-E GT | 367 | 98.8 | 269.21 | The real winner is Tesla by a large margin and LR and SR version are ever more efficient than this. Also I find the result of the EQS suspicious low given the weight of the vehicule, whereas the Tesla's consumption is surprisingly high. I don't think it should be over 200wh/km at 130km/h under normal conditions.
  - kken 4y ago
    What unit is "Efficiency" in? Wh/km? It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh. Appears this is engineered to the point. Why is Teslas Efficiency 10% better? My understanding is that they use SiC transistors in their inverter while the MEB uses Silicon IGBTs. A trade-off between reliability (Si), cost (Si), performance (SiC). How much of the difference is caused by this?

panick21_ 4y ago

So you have much more trust in the manufactures who pulled a global scam against the environment? And if you go look at the breakdown of the two cars, there isn't really anything that makes the ID.4 stand out in terms of technology. And in terms of software/electronics its clearly not as advanced, VM even clearly admits this. Its better value to be sure.

bsagdiyev 4y ago
I trust VW more than I trust Elon, yes.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  People who schemed to harm the environment for profit while Tesla was trying to develop the technology base to help seem like a pretty clear indicator who is more trustworthy. But I guess one person is douche on twitter and that whats most important.
  - bsagdiyev 4y ago
    Yeah that's not why I trust Elon less than VW but go on. Tell me why I, me, have this opinion. Since you know me.
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Ok, so what did he do that is worse then a global conspiracy to subvert environment regulations that did huge amounts of harm to millions of people, specially children in cities? My guess is you don't like their handling of developing FSD. That seems to be the most often mentioned on here.
      - danuker 4y ago
        > FSD To be fair, even the name is misleading. It's not fully-self-driving.
      - rank0 4y ago
        How about his blatant securities fraud(s), horrendous Vegas loop, constant lies, blocking unionizations, paid beta test “FSD”, pumping dogecoin, teslas removal from ESG…I could go on forever.
        panick21_ 4y ago
        > blatant securities fraud(s) Yeah, a dispute with the SEC about the meaning of a twit is much more important for the world then the millions of children breathing unhealthy air. Really details of security law that basically hurt nobody except some short term traders as most really is the most important thing in the world. > horrendous Vegas loop Seems like that is for the costumer to decide and they were happy and even want to extend the system. But I guess twitters opinion > pumping dogecoin Talking about something you like is not illegal. In fact by just mentioning dogecoin you made it more famous and pumped it. Unless you can prove pump-and-dump scheme its totally irrelevant. > teslas removal from ESG You mean the index where oil companies are ESG compliant and Tesla isn't. Yeah that really is far more important then lying millions of cars gas output. Like, why would you even care about that?
        rank0 4y ago
        > Yeah, a dispute with the SEC about the meaning of a twit is much more important for the world then the millions of children breathing unhealthy air. Really details of security law that basically hurt nobody except some short term traders… Wow. Is this the kind of society you want? One where the richest man in the world can profit from securities fraud? If us peons can’t commit fraud, neither should Elon. Shit, by your logic we should all be out committing financial crimes right now! FYI it wasn’t a dispute he settled for 20MM, but he’s rich enough to not care. Don’t forget about about solar city, where musk knowingly purchased a distressed company owned by his cousin without disclosing the info to shareholders. Add nepotism to my list please. Also note his ongoing twitter acquisition. He’s clearly manipulating the stock price to get a better deal AFTER agreeing to the purchase and waiving due diligence. He’s being sued. On the Vegas loop, he delivered nothing close to what was promised. The carbon/man hours expended building that horribly inefficient Tesla advertisement could’ve been used to created a reasonable transit system. On dogecoin…lol. You can’t be serious. He’s promoting an obvious joke as a serious financial asset to uneducated, poor “investors”. Dogecoin is down 90%. Thanks for ignoring the FSD beta testing and union stuff. He’s been accused of sexual misconduct, called that Thai dude a pedo, and became ultra rich off countless empty promises. We were supposed to have FSD, a mars colony, neuralink and a hyper loop by now. He’s sold bullshit all the way to the top and STILL receives subsidies from the government…then turns around and sells them to the polluting auto companies he claims to replace.
Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
> So you have much more trust in the manufactures who pulled a global scam against the environment? Better to lie to the detriment of the environment than to the detriment of the consumer like Tesla does. What VW did is essentially what developing countries do for their citizens by declaring bogus CO2 numbers in order to make the IPCC/UN/COP happy and keep granting the welfare and quality of life of their citizens providing energy they badly need to live like they deserve. Too bad they got caught, hopefully the model can be replicated by TATA and Great Wall Co. Ltd as well as other car manufacturers which are located in jurisdictions which are not subject to the ESG tyranny.
- naveen99 4y ago
  The lure of lying is you can ignore reality all together. You can even pretend you didn’t get caught lying. You can pretend people still trust you or listen to you.
  - Bubble_Pop_22 4y ago
    I only trust Volvo more than VW because they have a track record of caring about safety. Vehicles aren't a societal purchase, they are an individual's purchase. They should maximize the welfare of the individual who pays up the money. I'd be disappointed if VW didn't keep researching ways to get around emission targets for the benefit of the consumer and against ESG tyranny.
BucketsMcG 4y ago
Tesla faked swappable batteries to con millions (billions?) in carbon credits out of the California state government, if we want to talk about environment scams.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Sorry but that is nonsense. The Carbon Credits have nothing to do with swappable batteries. They got some money to demonstrate the technology and they did. They never committed or were required rolling this technology out on a large scale. And it was really not that much money. If that is the example you go to, you are really deep in the barrel to come up with something.

belter 4y ago

Approximately two months ago AutoBild made a range test with several models. "German AutoBild March 2022 – EV Range Test at Highway Speed" (In German): https://www.autobild.de/artikel/e-auto-autobahn-reichweite-test-tempo-130-km-h-20977681.html https://www.autobild.de/artikel/e-auto-autobahn-reichweite-t... They Tested 28 Models - Top 10: --------------------------------------------- Mercedes EQS -> 444 km ( 276 Miles) BMW iX xDrive 50 -> 434 km ( 270 Miles) Ford Mach-E GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles) Audi RS e-tron GT -> 367 km ( 228 Miles) Porsche Taycan 4S -> 352 km ( 219 Miles) Tesla Model 3 Performance -> 337 km ( 209 Miles) VW ID.4 GTX -> 332 km ( 206 Miles) VW ID.4 Pro -> 328 km ( 204 Miles) Audi Q4 e-tron 40 -> 326 km ( 203 Miles) Skoda Enyaq iV80 -> 316 km ( 196 Miles) ---------------------------------------------

lelag 4y ago
Such a meaningless article as it does not take battery size into account... Sure your EQS has 444 km but have fun recharging that 107 kwh monster battery... The name of the game is efficiency and here are the result in that test: | Model | Range KM | Battery (kwh) | Efficiency | | ------------------------- | -------- | ------------- | ---------- | | Tesla Model 3 Performance | 337 | 75 | 222.55 | | Mercedes EQS | 444 | 107.8 | 242.79 | | VW ID.4 GTX | 332 | 82 | 246.99 | | VW ID.4 Pro | 328 | 82 | 250 | | Audi Q4 e-tron 40 | 326 | 82 | 251.53 | | Audi RS e-tron GT | 367 | 93.4 | 254.5 | | BMW iX xDrive 50 | 434 | 111.5 | 256.91 | | Skoda Enyaq iV80 | 316 | 82 | 259.49 | | Porsche Taycan 4S | 352 | 93.4 | 265.34 | | Ford Mach-E GT | 367 | 98.8 | 269.21 | The real winner is Tesla by a large margin and LR and SR version are ever more efficient than this. Also I find the result of the EQS suspicious low given the weight of the vehicule, whereas the Tesla's consumption is surprisingly high. I don't think it should be over 200wh/km at 130km/h under normal conditions.
- kken 4y ago
  What unit is "Efficiency" in? Wh/km? It's interesting that VW seems to use a standardized 82kWh battery back in their MEB platform and achieves basically the same range as the Tesla 3 with 75kWh. Appears this is engineered to the point. Why is Teslas Efficiency 10% better? My understanding is that they use SiC transistors in their inverter while the MEB uses Silicon IGBTs. A trade-off between reliability (Si), cost (Si), performance (SiC). How much of the difference is caused by this?