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Difference is that your US and German branches have access to a justice system that can stop the government. In China, the justice system is part of the CCP an

Difference is that your US and German branches have access to a justice system that can stop the government. In China, the justice system is part of the CCP and if you don’t comply, your company is gone.

tirpen 4y ago
> Difference is that your US and German branches have access to a justice system that can stop the government. Germany sure, but The US? Do you not remember the Snowden leaks at all? Almost every company I've worked with the past several years has had a very strict No-US-Servers-Ever-policy, because people don't trusts the US government to not snoop around.
- fmajid 4y ago
  It should be “No US company, period” because the Cloud Act empowers the US government to compel, say Amazon Web Services to disclose information they hold on a server hosted in Germany even if this violates EU law.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
techdragon 4y ago
The whole US / EU safe harbour provisions issue is because the EU is not satisfied that in the United States you don’t in fact have a justice system that can stop the government… that there are insufficient powers to stop certain parts of the government like the the NSA, CIA, DEA, FBI counter terrorism groups etc… who are granted extraordinary powers to do questionable shit like sucking up as much internet data as possible without a warrant in the name off “efficiency” using such flimsy reasoning as “it’s only a search for legal purposes when we run a database query on a US citizens data later” and “we’re legally allowed to do anything we like with the data of anyone who isn’t a US citizen… so these EU guys can fuck off” (or the appropriate US lawyer speak equivalent)
- fmajid 4y ago
  The CJEU explicitly ruled that the FISA courts are not independent, I.e. kangaroo courts. I think it’s a fair assessment.
voldacar 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter
orthecreedence 4y ago
> have access to a justice system that can stop the government. Haha, good one.
codedokode 4y ago
> a justice system that can stop the government. There might be a law that allows government to obtain the data if it is a matter of national security. And what is considered such a matter is up to government to decide.
null0pointer 4y ago
My interpretation of what GP is trying to say that the way forward is to intentionally limit your own capabilities such that it is simply impossible to comply with government overreach. For an example see Signal and their subpoenas.

tirpen 4y ago

> Difference is that your US and German branches have access to a justice system that can stop the government. Germany sure, but The US? Do you not remember the Snowden leaks at all? Almost every company I've worked with the past several years has had a very strict No-US-Servers-Ever-policy, because people don't trusts the US government to not snoop around.

fmajid 4y ago
It should be “No US company, period” because the Cloud Act empowers the US government to compel, say Amazon Web Services to disclose information they hold on a server hosted in Germany even if this violates EU law.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

techdragon 4y ago

The whole US / EU safe harbour provisions issue is because the EU is not satisfied that in the United States you don’t in fact have a justice system that can stop the government… that there are insufficient powers to stop certain parts of the government like the the NSA, CIA, DEA, FBI counter terrorism groups etc… who are granted extraordinary powers to do questionable shit like sucking up as much internet data as possible without a warrant in the name off “efficiency” using such flimsy reasoning as “it’s only a search for legal purposes when we run a database query on a US citizens data later” and “we’re legally allowed to do anything we like with the data of anyone who isn’t a US citizen… so these EU guys can fuck off” (or the appropriate US lawyer speak equivalent)

fmajid 4y ago
The CJEU explicitly ruled that the FISA courts are not independent, I.e. kangaroo courts. I think it’s a fair assessment.

voldacar 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter

orthecreedence 4y ago

> have access to a justice system that can stop the government. Haha, good one.

codedokode 4y ago

> a justice system that can stop the government. There might be a law that allows government to obtain the data if it is a matter of national security. And what is considered such a matter is up to government to decide.

null0pointer 4y ago

My interpretation of what GP is trying to say that the way forward is to intentionally limit your own capabilities such that it is simply impossible to comply with government overreach. For an example see Signal and their subpoenas.