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The question I posed may speak to how it may be possible to get these entities to move toward a more preferable world view. A rich nerd needs more than crimina

The question I posed may speak to how it may be possible to get these entities to move toward a more preferable world view. A rich nerd needs more than criminal protection, BTW. Just a few basics: Without the machinery of society running well, wealth becomes quite burdensome. The nerd needs said wealth recognized, means to transact, enforce contracts, currency to trade with, and all that depends on courts and governments of some kind. And there is more. I just sort of stopped. There will be value in the "ether", but it will also intersect real space and there is the relevance. Talking about this is sort of like those free energy machine discussions where everyone excited about the machine potential forgets about the initial energy input and how entropy will bleed it away however slowly. Wealthy nerds do not just appear and create in a vacuum. And no judgement on the idealized nerd being discussed. Could be a wealthy anyone! A poor nerd needs the same protection as well as the means to do all the basic human stuff needed to exist and practice nerdery. (I laughed at that being a defined word) In terms of being a nerd and creating ethereal value, it looks to me like assuming wealth just makes it considerably easier to ignore where this stuff meets up with reality, a lot like some free energy machine presentations end up compelling enough to sideline the initial energy input...

FredPret 4y ago
Fair points all. I meant my comment mostly in terms of negotiation. Rich nerds don't pop into existence out of a vacuum, but now that we exist, we can move to the country that suits each of us best and do the same work with roughly similar incomes. Yes, we still need the common infrastructure, but for the most part, I need a fast internet connection and a lack of bullets coming my way. This drastically reduces the hold any one country has over me, which is what allowed me to wave goodbye to my country of birth and move to a country where I like the tax/spend pattern more (Canada). Theoretically, one could site all earning, investing, and banking in some tax haven and just use a credit card to transact. We'll still need countries, but they will be more like regular infrastructure providers (civilization as a service?).
- ddingus 4y ago
  "for the most part" Let's talk about farmers and fields for a moment: Early on in human history, the first farmers began their work with fertile ground. Mistakes were made, understanding gained, improvements were also made. And this is just humans being humans. Over time, it was observed the earth can become parched when farmed too many times without putting some of the yields back into the soil. There are no free lunches. Every so often, it is necessary to invest in the earth so that it remains fertile and yields bountiful. Farmers, having once learned this, continued to do it, and everyone is living in relative harmony. Along comes big Ag. Good yields are not good enough. They want the maximum, and they ignore history and proceed to max the ground out, and of course it becomes parched. Rather than invest in the maintenance of fertile ground, which requires some crops be grown to be turned back into earth, they treat the ground chemically and continue. And now there is a top soil problem where there was once fertile ground. And so they basically mooch top soil from somewhere else, and on it goes. Turns out those high yields are quite expensive for everyone else! Now, let's look at what you say you need: For example, what gives that fast Internet connection value? A wealthy society in which to derive that income! This is fertile ground. See where I am going with this? What happens when that wealthy society is not maintained? In other words, what happens when the ground becomes parched? Bullets, among many other things like it being harder to get that income due to lower demand as greater numbers of people struggle due to growing economic problems and those are generally due to labor not paying what it costs for people to actually exist and show up for work and perform that labor, and also generally due to debt accumulation in the form of "parched" societies in serious need of reinvestment. It's great to maximize it for you, thinking of only your considerations as if the rest of the world just comes gratis. It doesn't you know. Really, this is all no different from the farmer who does not see the need to reinvest in their ground. What they do is get all they can and when that ground becomes parched, they call it someone else's problem and move to new, fertile ground where they wash, rinse, repeat, until they have a lot of wealth accumulated and have left behind a lot of parched ground for others to restore to being fertile, and doing that isn't cheap!! That farmer could have invested in their ground, still could have accumulated considerable wealth, but would not be costing everyone around them very large sums of money while doing it. Nobody exists in a vacuum. Everything costs something. And if you are not paying it, someone else is forced to, and or where it's not paid, other costs and risks, such as bullets, tend to follow soon after. That's it. Ideally some food for thought regarding "needs" being far greater than the idealized picture you put here.

FredPret 4y ago

Fair points all. I meant my comment mostly in terms of negotiation. Rich nerds don't pop into existence out of a vacuum, but now that we exist, we can move to the country that suits each of us best and do the same work with roughly similar incomes. Yes, we still need the common infrastructure, but for the most part, I need a fast internet connection and a lack of bullets coming my way. This drastically reduces the hold any one country has over me, which is what allowed me to wave goodbye to my country of birth and move to a country where I like the tax/spend pattern more (Canada). Theoretically, one could site all earning, investing, and banking in some tax haven and just use a credit card to transact. We'll still need countries, but they will be more like regular infrastructure providers (civilization as a service?).

ddingus 4y ago
"for the most part" Let's talk about farmers and fields for a moment: Early on in human history, the first farmers began their work with fertile ground. Mistakes were made, understanding gained, improvements were also made. And this is just humans being humans. Over time, it was observed the earth can become parched when farmed too many times without putting some of the yields back into the soil. There are no free lunches. Every so often, it is necessary to invest in the earth so that it remains fertile and yields bountiful. Farmers, having once learned this, continued to do it, and everyone is living in relative harmony. Along comes big Ag. Good yields are not good enough. They want the maximum, and they ignore history and proceed to max the ground out, and of course it becomes parched. Rather than invest in the maintenance of fertile ground, which requires some crops be grown to be turned back into earth, they treat the ground chemically and continue. And now there is a top soil problem where there was once fertile ground. And so they basically mooch top soil from somewhere else, and on it goes. Turns out those high yields are quite expensive for everyone else! Now, let's look at what you say you need: For example, what gives that fast Internet connection value? A wealthy society in which to derive that income! This is fertile ground. See where I am going with this? What happens when that wealthy society is not maintained? In other words, what happens when the ground becomes parched? Bullets, among many other things like it being harder to get that income due to lower demand as greater numbers of people struggle due to growing economic problems and those are generally due to labor not paying what it costs for people to actually exist and show up for work and perform that labor, and also generally due to debt accumulation in the form of "parched" societies in serious need of reinvestment. It's great to maximize it for you, thinking of only your considerations as if the rest of the world just comes gratis. It doesn't you know. Really, this is all no different from the farmer who does not see the need to reinvest in their ground. What they do is get all they can and when that ground becomes parched, they call it someone else's problem and move to new, fertile ground where they wash, rinse, repeat, until they have a lot of wealth accumulated and have left behind a lot of parched ground for others to restore to being fertile, and doing that isn't cheap!! That farmer could have invested in their ground, still could have accumulated considerable wealth, but would not be costing everyone around them very large sums of money while doing it. Nobody exists in a vacuum. Everything costs something. And if you are not paying it, someone else is forced to, and or where it's not paid, other costs and risks, such as bullets, tend to follow soon after. That's it. Ideally some food for thought regarding "needs" being far greater than the idealized picture you put here.