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- everything i read about the next global pandemic predict it will come out of Brazil or China via a well preserved primitive fauna - in flora as described by t

- everything i read about the next global pandemic predict it will come out of Brazil or China via a well preserved primitive fauna - in flora as described by the video -- should the people in the video be using some from of PPE? --

colechristensen 4y ago
>should the people in the video be using some from of PPE? No. What creates risk are wet markets selling live wild-caught animals in unsanitary conditions. These are breeding grounds for diseases to develop in animal populations and especially to have lots of opportunities to develop the abilities to jump species. Animals in the wild in China are of no greater risk than animals in the wild anywhere else in the world. Confinement, sanitation, and density is what creates risk, not national borders for animals in the wild.
- robinsoh 4y ago
  > No. That seems really confident and terse for a really complicated question. Wouldn't PPE be somewhat useful in protecting this 'ancient forest' from diseases the researchers/visitors may be bringing to the area? > Confinement, sanitation, and density is what creates risk That describes every industrial farm/mega farm. Guess which country has multiple ag-gag laws and anti-whistleblower laws? If your statement is true, why are such industries not only permitted to expand but even provided with subsidies from tax payers? [eg Wichita and Cargill ] Would it be unfair to say the incredible demand for animals is what creates the risk?
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    >Would it be unfair to say the incredible demand for animals is what creates the risk? A poorly regulated market which takes known risks (selling wild live animals kept in dense, squalid conditions for human consumption) creates the risk. >Wouldn't PPE be somewhat useful in protecting this 'ancient forest' from diseases the researchers/visitors may be bringing to the area? No. The remarkable part is that it is in a sinkhole, the ecology of it is likely entirely unremarkable. This is not a fragile super-isolated ecosystem (there are a few of these in caves or islands which are and do sometimes merit special protections because they've actually been well isolated beyond just being in a hole) >That describes every industrial farm/mega farm. The wet market risk comes from live wild-caught animals, squalid conditions, sold to eat. Industrial farming is a controlled closed environment where diseases are known and managed, it's not wonderful, but it is nothing like the wet market risks coming out of China and a few other places around the world.
    - robinsoh 4y ago
      > Industrial farming is a controlled closed environment where diseases are known and managed, That doesn't sound like an accurate description to me based on the evidence I have read and seen in Kansas. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7416595/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7416595/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817674/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817674/
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        Factory farming, as I said, is definitely not an ideal thing. But it has nowhere near the risk profile for evolving human disease as unregulated wet markets. The two links you posted have nothing to do with that, which was the topic at hand.
        robinsoh 4y ago
        > But it has nowhere near the risk profile for evolving human disease as unregulated wet markets Is your assessment based on evidence? I'd be interested to read a statistical analysis comparing the number of diseases that have come out of "regulated" industrial/factory farming versus unregulated wet markets.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  What creates risks are supervirus labs in places with safety concerns and outsourcing research to them.

colechristensen 4y ago

>should the people in the video be using some from of PPE? No. What creates risk are wet markets selling live wild-caught animals in unsanitary conditions. These are breeding grounds for diseases to develop in animal populations and especially to have lots of opportunities to develop the abilities to jump species. Animals in the wild in China are of no greater risk than animals in the wild anywhere else in the world. Confinement, sanitation, and density is what creates risk, not national borders for animals in the wild.

robinsoh 4y ago
> No. That seems really confident and terse for a really complicated question. Wouldn't PPE be somewhat useful in protecting this 'ancient forest' from diseases the researchers/visitors may be bringing to the area? > Confinement, sanitation, and density is what creates risk That describes every industrial farm/mega farm. Guess which country has multiple ag-gag laws and anti-whistleblower laws? If your statement is true, why are such industries not only permitted to expand but even provided with subsidies from tax payers? [eg Wichita and Cargill ] Would it be unfair to say the incredible demand for animals is what creates the risk?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  >Would it be unfair to say the incredible demand for animals is what creates the risk? A poorly regulated market which takes known risks (selling wild live animals kept in dense, squalid conditions for human consumption) creates the risk. >Wouldn't PPE be somewhat useful in protecting this 'ancient forest' from diseases the researchers/visitors may be bringing to the area? No. The remarkable part is that it is in a sinkhole, the ecology of it is likely entirely unremarkable. This is not a fragile super-isolated ecosystem (there are a few of these in caves or islands which are and do sometimes merit special protections because they've actually been well isolated beyond just being in a hole) >That describes every industrial farm/mega farm. The wet market risk comes from live wild-caught animals, squalid conditions, sold to eat. Industrial farming is a controlled closed environment where diseases are known and managed, it's not wonderful, but it is nothing like the wet market risks coming out of China and a few other places around the world.
  - robinsoh 4y ago
    > Industrial farming is a controlled closed environment where diseases are known and managed, That doesn't sound like an accurate description to me based on the evidence I have read and seen in Kansas. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7416595/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7416595/ , https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817674/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1817674/
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      Factory farming, as I said, is definitely not an ideal thing. But it has nowhere near the risk profile for evolving human disease as unregulated wet markets. The two links you posted have nothing to do with that, which was the topic at hand.
      - robinsoh 4y ago
        > But it has nowhere near the risk profile for evolving human disease as unregulated wet markets Is your assessment based on evidence? I'd be interested to read a statistical analysis comparing the number of diseases that have come out of "regulated" industrial/factory farming versus unregulated wet markets.
ipaddr 4y ago
What creates risks are supervirus labs in places with safety concerns and outsourcing research to them.