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That looks like a pretty cool language. To me it sounds like you and the other person were saying that Pascal and Oberon weren't "large enough". I'm just poin

That looks like a pretty cool language. To me it sounds like you and the other person were saying that Pascal and Oberon weren't "large enough". I'm just pointing out that they were large enough that people can and did do serious work with them, and that, in many ways, our modern systems aren't that much better than what they achieved with those relatively simple and primitive tools. They weren't perfect, both languages grew and became more elaborate, that's true, but the original systems were solid.

Rochus 4y ago
Thanks. The argument was, that Wirth's original language designs were less successful than the extenden versions designed by others, e.g. Boarland. The original designs are undoubtedly sufficiently expressive to build things of decent size, but apparently too little attractive for wide adoption. Not surprisingly, variants of all Wirth languages have quickly emerged; in the case of Oberon, for example, these are Oberon-2 by Mössenböck or Component Pascal by an ETH spin-off.
- carapace 4y ago
  > Thanks. You're welcome. I don't look at usernames on HN so it didn't occur to me until now that it's your project. It really does seem like a well-considered extension of Oberon, I'm going to check it out in more depth later. > The argument was, that Wirth's original language designs were less successful than the extended versions designed by others, e.g. Boarland. In a sense, the extensions of his work are the success, eh? > The original designs are undoubtedly sufficiently expressive to build things of decent size, but apparently too little attractive for wide adoption. In the quote from the interview with Wirth he says "I think the industry thinks it’s a big asset to have a complex thing that increases their reputation of being sophisticated." So rather than a curing a lack of expressivity, complexity instead provides a marketing edge, in his opinion. > Not surprisingly, variants of all Wirth languages have quickly emerged Again, to me that seems like a kind of success. The alternatives are that Wirth birthed perfect languages, like Athena springing from the head of Zeus, or that they were all barren and died on the vine.
  - Rochus 4y ago
    > So rather than a curing a lack of expressivity, complexity instead provides a marketing edge, in his opinion. His focus was educating students at ETH; the languages he created with this focus were fit for purpose; it is true that there are developers in industry who prefer complex languages for sophistication reasons; but there are also pragmatic people; even they apparently prefer Delphi over Pascal; I don't consider Delphi complex e.g. in comparison with C++11. > to me that seems like a kind of success Agree; the original languages are great and a robust basis; and e.g. Go is a very successful offspring of Oberon-2.

Rochus 4y ago

Thanks. The argument was, that Wirth's original language designs were less successful than the extenden versions designed by others, e.g. Boarland. The original designs are undoubtedly sufficiently expressive to build things of decent size, but apparently too little attractive for wide adoption. Not surprisingly, variants of all Wirth languages have quickly emerged; in the case of Oberon, for example, these are Oberon-2 by Mössenböck or Component Pascal by an ETH spin-off.

carapace 4y ago
> Thanks. You're welcome. I don't look at usernames on HN so it didn't occur to me until now that it's your project. It really does seem like a well-considered extension of Oberon, I'm going to check it out in more depth later. > The argument was, that Wirth's original language designs were less successful than the extended versions designed by others, e.g. Boarland. In a sense, the extensions of his work are the success, eh? > The original designs are undoubtedly sufficiently expressive to build things of decent size, but apparently too little attractive for wide adoption. In the quote from the interview with Wirth he says "I think the industry thinks it’s a big asset to have a complex thing that increases their reputation of being sophisticated." So rather than a curing a lack of expressivity, complexity instead provides a marketing edge, in his opinion. > Not surprisingly, variants of all Wirth languages have quickly emerged Again, to me that seems like a kind of success. The alternatives are that Wirth birthed perfect languages, like Athena springing from the head of Zeus, or that they were all barren and died on the vine.
- Rochus 4y ago
  > So rather than a curing a lack of expressivity, complexity instead provides a marketing edge, in his opinion. His focus was educating students at ETH; the languages he created with this focus were fit for purpose; it is true that there are developers in industry who prefer complex languages for sophistication reasons; but there are also pragmatic people; even they apparently prefer Delphi over Pascal; I don't consider Delphi complex e.g. in comparison with C++11. > to me that seems like a kind of success Agree; the original languages are great and a robust basis; and e.g. Go is a very successful offspring of Oberon-2.