6 ms·

If they misbehave, that's another story to discuss. But the manner in which you publicly talk about your own family is just disgusting. I have only higher wor

by pestaa 15y ago

If they misbehave, that's another story to discuss. But the manner in which you publicly talk about your own family is just disgusting. I have only higher words even about my dog even with the headaches she causes sometimes.

bambax 15y ago
Thanks for commenting, because I can't understand the downvotes. I still don't see where I "publicly talk about my own family" in a "disgusting" way, but if that's how my comment comes across, it sure looks bad. For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds). My point is: who doesn't love his kids??!? (And who cares?) - - - Edit: this may bring more downvotes, but it's worth it if it helps me understand myself. I profoundly disliked Jeff's post. I should have said so instead of trying to be funny about it, but then I would have had to explain. Well, I have to explain anyway. So there. If parenting should teach you anything, it's that your kids are not you. They are not part of you, either. They're them; they're persons. Jeff says so near the end, but I'm afraid he doesn't understand what it means. Contrary to what most people apparently believe, praising your own kids in public, or your love for them, isn't helping them. It's helping you. It's using them to project a better image of you. It objectifies them: in fact, it's a kind of abuse.
- libria 15y ago
  You probably got downvoted because while everyone was having a kumbaya moment, you "went there". I appreciate your level perspective FWIW.
- Jem 15y ago
  I didn't down-vote you because I think I get what you're saying (even if I don't agree), but your first comment initially reads like: a) you're suggesting you'd throw your kids under a bus, and b) you only love your first.
- pestaa 15y ago
  I didn't downvote you even if I could have, because it was clear to me where you were coming from (I disliked the article too, though for different reasons.) However, you (generally, not specifically you) would never say in front of your kids "well I love the first, but the others?" unless you're out of your mind. Imagine they'll dig down in the HN archives. It can have such a long-term harmful effect on their self-images. The difference might be that this kind of abuse is a bit more explicit compared to the public praise.
  - toyg 15y ago
    I think he meant the feeling you get is different: the first time, it's all wonderful and unexpected and This Baby Will Be President. By the time Jr-Jr comes along, expectations will be more... subdued.
    - bambax 15y ago
      Exactly, thank you. I was not talking about the children themselves but about the experience.
  - BlazingFrog 15y ago
    Read again. He never said he loved the first one but not the others. I'm paraphrasing: "the first one is wonderful, the others not so much".
- run4yourlives 15y ago
  I'm not a psychologist and I really, really hate what I'm about to do, but I'm going to do it anyway because I believe it may possibly help you. Feel free to take it or leave it, it's just a voice on the internet after all. First, I find it annoying that you're being downvoted here. You're being honest and sincere and that should be commended even if I don't agree with you. To the point however: From reading your comments, it seems to me that there is something about your children (well, two of them at least) that you really, really don't like. My guess would be that this isn't because they are so different from you, but rather that they are exhibiting qualities that are very similar to qualities about yourself that you detest. I could be way off, but you might do well to explore this aspect on your own, if only to discount it. You seem to think that what you're feeling is positive to them. I can assure you that it isn't. I can also assure you that they feel it too.
  - watmough 15y ago
    Yes, I completely agree. If you have anything other than complete unconditional love for a child under about 10, then it seems possible there's something very very wrong. Its almost like he's talking about someone else's kids that he's baby sitting. Small children are a blank canvas. Good and bad. Mine is sitting down quietly paging through a book whilst I tap this in on the iPad. Moments ago, she was blundering about with a blanket over her head. A day ago, she was tired, and apparently determined to crack her head open by falling onto a metal bed frame. It's life, the most precious thing in the world. Love it while you can.
    - mikeash 15y ago
      This really bugs me. Why can't we have a normal range of emotions here? Yes, we are predisposed to enormously love our children. But it's just a massive bias, not an absolute requirement. Acting like anything short of complete and unconditional love with absolutely no complaints or downside somehow means that there's something wrong with a person just suppresses completely legitimate feelings and makes it difficult for people to figure out how to deal with the inevitable problems and bad parts that will occur.
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  > It objectifies them: in fact, it's a kind of abuse. Really? It's abuse to praise your kids in public? Do you really feel that praising your child in public is the same as abusing them? Regardless of whether that praise is warranted or not, you're calling it abuse? I honestly think you are disconnected. I understand you are trying to make a point, and while I didn't necessarily agree, I could respect that opinion. But when you started to define praise in public as abuse (that whole line of thinking), I really think you lost it. The worst part is, I could see what you were thinking. I just think it's so disconnected from reality. This explains why you think and feel the way you do. This could be a cultural thing (you are from France). Might also just be who you are. But I honestly think you are disconnected, and that can only hurt your opinion.
  - bambax 15y ago
    I didn't make myself clear, I think. Praising your kid in front of your kid, in public, when he deserves it, for example at the end of a game where he played well: that's good, that's just... normal. Talking about your kid, when he's not here, and presenting him, or your relation to him, in such a way that you benefit from the exposition: I don't think that's ok. Abuse is certainly too strong a word, but it's related.
    - jasonlotito 15y ago
      You didn't. I could have assumed you didn't mean what you said, but you were so adamant about it, I didn't want to impress my beliefs on you. Thanks for explaining. That being said: "Talking about your kid, when he's not here, and presenting him, or your relation to him, in such a way that you benefit from the exposition" Is this abuse? "For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds)." Because, in this context, you are using your child and your relation to them, as well as your love, as a way to bolster your own argument. It's a way to lend credibility and weight to what you have to say. It could be said that you felt your arguments couldn't stand on their own without making it clear that you're a parent. =) No, I dont' think it's abuse. I understand what I think you are trying to say: using those that would treat their children as mere accessories rather than children. But honestly, I don't think that's something you can see from one single post. Jeff made a post on a blog. It had some commentary, some interesting thoughts. It was something he had on his mind, and wanted to share it. He also used it as a segue into announcing the future birth of twins. To equate his post on his personal site announcing the pregnancy to abuse is, if I may be so bold, absurd. > downvoters should try to take care of my kids for a few days And it could be equally said upvoters should take care of my kids for a few days. Kids are different, and some can be an absolute joy, and others a nightmare. And you see both sides. People complaining, and people happy. Throughout my life, I've heard people say "Just wait until..." and at that moment, I'll understand what they've said. Sometimes this is the case. Sometimes it isn't. Just wait until you're me. You'll understand.

by pestaa 15y ago

bambax 15y ago

Thanks for commenting, because I can't understand the downvotes. I still don't see where I "publicly talk about my own family" in a "disgusting" way, but if that's how my comment comes across, it sure looks bad. For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds). My point is: who doesn't love his kids??!? (And who cares?) - - - Edit: this may bring more downvotes, but it's worth it if it helps me understand myself. I profoundly disliked Jeff's post. I should have said so instead of trying to be funny about it, but then I would have had to explain. Well, I have to explain anyway. So there. If parenting should teach you anything, it's that your kids are not you. They are not part of you, either. They're them; they're persons. Jeff says so near the end, but I'm afraid he doesn't understand what it means. Contrary to what most people apparently believe, praising your own kids in public, or your love for them, isn't helping them. It's helping you. It's using them to project a better image of you. It objectifies them: in fact, it's a kind of abuse.

libria 15y ago
You probably got downvoted because while everyone was having a kumbaya moment, you "went there". I appreciate your level perspective FWIW.
Jem 15y ago
I didn't down-vote you because I think I get what you're saying (even if I don't agree), but your first comment initially reads like: a) you're suggesting you'd throw your kids under a bus, and b) you only love your first.
pestaa 15y ago
I didn't downvote you even if I could have, because it was clear to me where you were coming from (I disliked the article too, though for different reasons.) However, you (generally, not specifically you) would never say in front of your kids "well I love the first, but the others?" unless you're out of your mind. Imagine they'll dig down in the HN archives. It can have such a long-term harmful effect on their self-images. The difference might be that this kind of abuse is a bit more explicit compared to the public praise.
- toyg 15y ago
  I think he meant the feeling you get is different: the first time, it's all wonderful and unexpected and This Baby Will Be President. By the time Jr-Jr comes along, expectations will be more... subdued.
  - bambax 15y ago
    Exactly, thank you. I was not talking about the children themselves but about the experience.
- BlazingFrog 15y ago
  Read again. He never said he loved the first one but not the others. I'm paraphrasing: "the first one is wonderful, the others not so much".
run4yourlives 15y ago
I'm not a psychologist and I really, really hate what I'm about to do, but I'm going to do it anyway because I believe it may possibly help you. Feel free to take it or leave it, it's just a voice on the internet after all. First, I find it annoying that you're being downvoted here. You're being honest and sincere and that should be commended even if I don't agree with you. To the point however: From reading your comments, it seems to me that there is something about your children (well, two of them at least) that you really, really don't like. My guess would be that this isn't because they are so different from you, but rather that they are exhibiting qualities that are very similar to qualities about yourself that you detest. I could be way off, but you might do well to explore this aspect on your own, if only to discount it. You seem to think that what you're feeling is positive to them. I can assure you that it isn't. I can also assure you that they feel it too.
- watmough 15y ago
  Yes, I completely agree. If you have anything other than complete unconditional love for a child under about 10, then it seems possible there's something very very wrong. Its almost like he's talking about someone else's kids that he's baby sitting. Small children are a blank canvas. Good and bad. Mine is sitting down quietly paging through a book whilst I tap this in on the iPad. Moments ago, she was blundering about with a blanket over her head. A day ago, she was tired, and apparently determined to crack her head open by falling onto a metal bed frame. It's life, the most precious thing in the world. Love it while you can.
  - mikeash 15y ago
    This really bugs me. Why can't we have a normal range of emotions here? Yes, we are predisposed to enormously love our children. But it's just a massive bias, not an absolute requirement. Acting like anything short of complete and unconditional love with absolutely no complaints or downside somehow means that there's something wrong with a person just suppresses completely legitimate feelings and makes it difficult for people to figure out how to deal with the inevitable problems and bad parts that will occur.
jasonlotito 15y ago
> It objectifies them: in fact, it's a kind of abuse. Really? It's abuse to praise your kids in public? Do you really feel that praising your child in public is the same as abusing them? Regardless of whether that praise is warranted or not, you're calling it abuse? I honestly think you are disconnected. I understand you are trying to make a point, and while I didn't necessarily agree, I could respect that opinion. But when you started to define praise in public as abuse (that whole line of thinking), I really think you lost it. The worst part is, I could see what you were thinking. I just think it's so disconnected from reality. This explains why you think and feel the way you do. This could be a cultural thing (you are from France). Might also just be who you are. But I honestly think you are disconnected, and that can only hurt your opinion.
- bambax 15y ago
  I didn't make myself clear, I think. Praising your kid in front of your kid, in public, when he deserves it, for example at the end of a game where he played well: that's good, that's just... normal. Talking about your kid, when he's not here, and presenting him, or your relation to him, in such a way that you benefit from the exposition: I don't think that's ok. Abuse is certainly too strong a word, but it's related.
  - jasonlotito 15y ago
    You didn't. I could have assumed you didn't mean what you said, but you were so adamant about it, I didn't want to impress my beliefs on you. Thanks for explaining. That being said: "Talking about your kid, when he's not here, and presenting him, or your relation to him, in such a way that you benefit from the exposition" Is this abuse? "For all it's worth, I love my kids. Of course. And I would throw myself under a bus for any of them. Of course. And I almost have, twice (under my motorbike, which is not a bus, but weights over 400 pounds)." Because, in this context, you are using your child and your relation to them, as well as your love, as a way to bolster your own argument. It's a way to lend credibility and weight to what you have to say. It could be said that you felt your arguments couldn't stand on their own without making it clear that you're a parent. =) No, I dont' think it's abuse. I understand what I think you are trying to say: using those that would treat their children as mere accessories rather than children. But honestly, I don't think that's something you can see from one single post. Jeff made a post on a blog. It had some commentary, some interesting thoughts. It was something he had on his mind, and wanted to share it. He also used it as a segue into announcing the future birth of twins. To equate his post on his personal site announcing the pregnancy to abuse is, if I may be so bold, absurd. > downvoters should try to take care of my kids for a few days And it could be equally said upvoters should take care of my kids for a few days. Kids are different, and some can be an absolute joy, and others a nightmare. And you see both sides. People complaining, and people happy. Throughout my life, I've heard people say "Just wait until..." and at that moment, I'll understand what they've said. Sometimes this is the case. Sometimes it isn't. Just wait until you're me. You'll understand.