5 ms·

So the answer is exploiting workers better and criminal activity?

throwaway0a5e 4y ago
The by the book business isn't hiring young people and teaching them how to drive heavy equipment. If their employees felt exploited they'd have problems retaining them. I think their employees care more about the perks and the fairly laid back work environment than they care about all the fire extinguishers on the property having an up to date tag. I know I did back when I worked those kinds of jobs.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bumby 4y ago
  >fire extinguishers on the property having an up to date tag. I know I did back when I worked those kinds of jobs. This is a problem with how you're thinking about low probability events. Yes, rules only matter when the low probability event occurs. Do you, for example, not care about up-to-date A&P logs on the aircraft you fly in as well? I'll be the first to admit that regulations can go beyond what should be considered an acceptable risk, but we have to at least acknowledge the risk they are meant to mitigate before determining if it's a reasonable regulation. That often involves understanding the consequences of low probability events, something we're usually not good at thinking about very well on a day-to-day basis.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > If their employees felt exploited they'd have problems retaining them. That is not usually true. Lots and lots of people feel exploited by their employers, yet stay in their jobs. Generally, they have financial obligations, need money and benefits, and jobs aren't so easy to replace.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    The family scrap yard is hiring able bodied young men and training them to drive heavy equipment (which they then presumably slap on their resumes). I know they get free lunch and (used/questionable) fuel oil/diesel because I've discussed it with an employee (last July/August or thereabouts). Based on the demeanor of everyone there it seems like a great place to work if you don't mind working outside and a fair amount of physical labor. I don't know what they're paid but all things considered it's probably crap. They wouldn't be hiring highschoolers if the pay was good. Considering how permanent some of their employees have been over the years despite being at an age where one is typically "leveling up" quickly. I feel very comfortable saying they're not exploited. I don't have the same visibility into the "corporate" yard because I only go there when I have to (they are only closed Sundays and federal holidays) and they have organized their workflow to keep their customers at arms length.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      What do you conclude? How does one person's perception of one example impact the overall issue? > Based on the demeanor of everyone there it seems like a great place to work If you mean it is your family scrapyard, I will suggest that many employers have formed that impression - often mistakenly (myself included!). I've heard it many times. My favorite was someone who told me how people loved working there and they didn't have the absurdities so common in business. Then we were walking around the cubicals, and it was observed how many Dilbert cartoons were posted.
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        I meant it is a family business, not my family business. Like their website has a picture of their ancestor hauling a boiler on a cart pulled by a team of oxen and it's currently run by two brothers of the same last name and the same name as the business (so I think it's a safe bet it's still in the same family). The point was to contrast it with BigCo that has MBAs writing the rules and shareholders it's accountable to. I do a substantial amount of business with that yard (and less of the corporate one, because they won't sell material and are generally way higher friction to do business with) and it looks like a very fine place to work. But this is also coming from someone who has worked in adjacent low margin industries so I have no delusions of ping pong tables in the break room. To reiterate what I said before, they're taking young able bodied men who are willing to do physical labor (this is a demographic that can basically find new jobs at will, you can't really trap them in a shit job) and teaching them marketable skill. The fact that those employees don't just turn around and get a different job with that skill says something about the value proposition of working there. Is it really so unbelievable to you that a business can not follow the letter of the law and not treat people like crap at the same time?
mistrial9 4y ago
short answer is yes, exploiting workers and "defining your activity as legal" whether it is or not.. that is what wins in a highly competitive field. source: electronics recycling reformer, crushed

The by the book business isn't hiring young people and teaching them how to drive heavy equipment. If their employees felt exploited they'd have problems retaining them. I think their employees care more about the perks and the fairly laid back work environment than they care about all the fire extinguishers on the property having an up to date tag. I know I did back when I worked those kinds of jobs.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bumby 4y ago
>fire extinguishers on the property having an up to date tag. I know I did back when I worked those kinds of jobs. This is a problem with how you're thinking about low probability events. Yes, rules only matter when the low probability event occurs. Do you, for example, not care about up-to-date A&P logs on the aircraft you fly in as well? I'll be the first to admit that regulations can go beyond what should be considered an acceptable risk, but we have to at least acknowledge the risk they are meant to mitigate before determining if it's a reasonable regulation. That often involves understanding the consequences of low probability events, something we're usually not good at thinking about very well on a day-to-day basis.
wolverine876 4y ago
> If their employees felt exploited they'd have problems retaining them. That is not usually true. Lots and lots of people feel exploited by their employers, yet stay in their jobs. Generally, they have financial obligations, need money and benefits, and jobs aren't so easy to replace.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  The family scrap yard is hiring able bodied young men and training them to drive heavy equipment (which they then presumably slap on their resumes). I know they get free lunch and (used/questionable) fuel oil/diesel because I've discussed it with an employee (last July/August or thereabouts). Based on the demeanor of everyone there it seems like a great place to work if you don't mind working outside and a fair amount of physical labor. I don't know what they're paid but all things considered it's probably crap. They wouldn't be hiring highschoolers if the pay was good. Considering how permanent some of their employees have been over the years despite being at an age where one is typically "leveling up" quickly. I feel very comfortable saying they're not exploited. I don't have the same visibility into the "corporate" yard because I only go there when I have to (they are only closed Sundays and federal holidays) and they have organized their workflow to keep their customers at arms length.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    What do you conclude? How does one person's perception of one example impact the overall issue? > Based on the demeanor of everyone there it seems like a great place to work If you mean it is your family scrapyard, I will suggest that many employers have formed that impression - often mistakenly (myself included!). I've heard it many times. My favorite was someone who told me how people loved working there and they didn't have the absurdities so common in business. Then we were walking around the cubicals, and it was observed how many Dilbert cartoons were posted.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      I meant it is a family business, not my family business. Like their website has a picture of their ancestor hauling a boiler on a cart pulled by a team of oxen and it's currently run by two brothers of the same last name and the same name as the business (so I think it's a safe bet it's still in the same family). The point was to contrast it with BigCo that has MBAs writing the rules and shareholders it's accountable to. I do a substantial amount of business with that yard (and less of the corporate one, because they won't sell material and are generally way higher friction to do business with) and it looks like a very fine place to work. But this is also coming from someone who has worked in adjacent low margin industries so I have no delusions of ping pong tables in the break room. To reiterate what I said before, they're taking young able bodied men who are willing to do physical labor (this is a demographic that can basically find new jobs at will, you can't really trap them in a shit job) and teaching them marketable skill. The fact that those employees don't just turn around and get a different job with that skill says something about the value proposition of working there. Is it really so unbelievable to you that a business can not follow the letter of the law and not treat people like crap at the same time?

mistrial9 4y ago

short answer is yes, exploiting workers and "defining your activity as legal" whether it is or not.. that is what wins in a highly competitive field. source: electronics recycling reformer, crushed