6 ms·

Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better.

by eli 4y ago

Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better. That isn't what most people are searching for in the top few results. Much of it is objectively untrue. Announcing the change isn't "virtue signaling," it's transparency. Surely HN would be more upset if the change was made and kept quiet.

mistermann 4y ago
How is Russian State propaganda identified?
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- hedora 4y ago
  The two most common ways are research into the ownership of the news outlet, and by provenance tracking stories from known Russian-owned sites to other outlets. That's combined with old-fashioned journalism, where people attempt to verify suspected propaganda stories by finding corroborating evidence. (Sometimes the Russian sites run true stories, after all.) This approach tends to produce some false positives, as there are news sites that don't fact check stuff before repeating it, and they end up being indistinguishable from state-sponsored propaganda to outside observers. I'm not sure how much it matters in practice if sites that routinely publish incorrect stories accidentally get misclassified. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-prop... http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html
  - eli 4y ago
    I don't think there are any Russia-based independent news sites left, are there?
  - mistermann 4y ago
    > The two most common ways are research into the ownership of the news outlet, and by provenance tracking stories from known Russian-owned sites to other outlets. That's combined with old-fashioned journalism, where people attempt to verify suspected propaganda stories by finding corroborating evidence. (Sometimes the Russian sites run true stories, after all.) Who is it that performs this service? And do all search engines consume the same classifications? Considering how much obvious propaganda from Western sources I consume on a daily basis, I'm more than a little skeptical that they can be trusted to label what is and is not true from geopolitical rivals.
nathanaldensr 4y ago
- eli 4y ago
  It's illegal to use the word "war" to describe it in Russia
gruez 4y ago
>Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better. You can plausibly make the same argument about downranking sites like CNN or fox news.
- eli 4y ago
  Sure. It's a judgement call. It always is. The people who order counterfeit pills from "canadian pharmacy" sites probably don't consider those sites spam and could plausibly argue that they shouldn't be downranked.
- teh64 4y ago
  How could you make the same argument? CNN and Fox News are allowed to report on things that the Government does not want it to and they can say things that the Government would not want them to say. I mean CNN and Fox News are on different sides and report on things very differently, whereas Russian state propaganda follows the exact same line and messaging. I'm sure you would agree CNN and Fox News do not have the same messaging or agenda?
ecmascript 4y ago
This is exactly what happened to Google and why Google is just one big filter bubble today. The started making decisions for the users and this is precisely what DDG was not about doing when they started. Now they have deviated from that vision so I could just as well use Google instead.
- eli 4y ago
  How do you propose a search engine provide ordered results without making decisions for users about what order they should appear in?
qiskit 4y ago
> Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better Considering most propaganda we see are US/EU propaganda, wouldn't it be better to downrank US/EU 'news'? Why target one propaganda but not the others?

by eli 4y ago

mistermann 4y ago

How is Russian State propaganda identified?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hedora 4y ago
The two most common ways are research into the ownership of the news outlet, and by provenance tracking stories from known Russian-owned sites to other outlets. That's combined with old-fashioned journalism, where people attempt to verify suspected propaganda stories by finding corroborating evidence. (Sometimes the Russian sites run true stories, after all.) This approach tends to produce some false positives, as there are news sites that don't fact check stuff before repeating it, and they end up being indistinguishable from state-sponsored propaganda to outside observers. I'm not sure how much it matters in practice if sites that routinely publish incorrect stories accidentally get misclassified. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-propaganda-effort-helped-spread-fake-news-during-election-experts-say/2016/11/24/793903b6-8a40-4ca9-b712-716af66098fe_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/russian-prop... http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html http://www.propornot.com/p/home.html
- eli 4y ago
  I don't think there are any Russia-based independent news sites left, are there?
- mistermann 4y ago
  > The two most common ways are research into the ownership of the news outlet, and by provenance tracking stories from known Russian-owned sites to other outlets. That's combined with old-fashioned journalism, where people attempt to verify suspected propaganda stories by finding corroborating evidence. (Sometimes the Russian sites run true stories, after all.) Who is it that performs this service? And do all search engines consume the same classifications? Considering how much obvious propaganda from Western sources I consume on a daily basis, I'm more than a little skeptical that they can be trusted to label what is and is not true from geopolitical rivals.

nathanaldensr 4y ago

eli 4y ago
It's illegal to use the word "war" to describe it in Russia

gruez 4y ago

>Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better. You can plausibly make the same argument about downranking sites like CNN or fox news.

eli 4y ago
Sure. It's a judgement call. It always is. The people who order counterfeit pills from "canadian pharmacy" sites probably don't consider those sites spam and could plausibly argue that they shouldn't be downranked.
teh64 4y ago
How could you make the same argument? CNN and Fox News are allowed to report on things that the Government does not want it to and they can say things that the Government would not want them to say. I mean CNN and Fox News are on different sides and report on things very differently, whereas Russian state propaganda follows the exact same line and messaging. I'm sure you would agree CNN and Fox News do not have the same messaging or agenda?

ecmascript 4y ago

This is exactly what happened to Google and why Google is just one big filter bubble today. The started making decisions for the users and this is precisely what DDG was not about doing when they started. Now they have deviated from that vision so I could just as well use Google instead.

eli 4y ago
How do you propose a search engine provide ordered results without making decisions for users about what order they should appear in?

qiskit 4y ago

> Downranking Russian state propaganda from the search results for people searching general news about the war in Ukraine is useful and makes the results better Considering most propaganda we see are US/EU propaganda, wouldn't it be better to downrank US/EU 'news'? Why target one propaganda but not the others?