4 ms·

EU Agrees on `Blue Card' to Lure Qualified Migrants

21 points by dangoldin 18y ago

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
biohacker42 18y ago
Or they could allow East Europeans like me to work. Then I would not have come to the US. But ya' know what, you didn't want my poor over educated Eastern ass a few years ago, so I came to America, no regrets, fuck you people.
- wheels 18y ago
  From everything that I've gathered, in Germany at least, the process is less brain-dead than in the US. It's still brain-dead, but there's less insult added to injury. (Saying this as an American with permanent residence in Germany.)
hernan7 18y ago
No path to citizenship? Not interested, sorry.
- pmjordan 18y ago
  Most, if not all EU countries have provisions for obtaining citizenship after a certain number of years of residence. Or do you mean gaining citizenship after a certain number of years in any EU country?
  - ardit33 18y ago
    Yes. Like in germany, where it takes about 16 years of living there to get a citizenship, and since you were not born there, you will always be a second class citizen, always. Plus in a typical racist/ethnocentric way, you have to renounce your motherland's country's citizenship. No, thanks. There is a real good reason USA attracts smart immigrants in droves. Even with the latest problems after 2001, this country will be able to attract more foreigner than any other country in europe.
    - fbailey 18y ago
      Germany 8 years ( with an immigration course 7 years - very good knowledge of german 6 years) - US 5 years. If you don't like germany got to the UK.
      - deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
      - wheels 18y ago
        Details are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturali... Permanent residence is a load of paperwork, but still fairly straightforward if you've been working in Germany for 5 years and as of the latest laws gives you the right to work and live anywhere in the EU.
    - mynameishere 18y ago
      Plus in a typical racist/ethnocentric way, you have to renounce your motherland's country's citizenship Oh, that's too much to ask. They don't allow phony citizenship, but only the real kind.
      - ardit33 18y ago
        but you will never be a "German" in their eyes, even if the passport they give you says so. Who is the one being phony?
geebee 18y ago
Sounds like this will cause problems similar to the H1B. The comments here have already shown this. Programming is hard, and it's hard to get people to do it for you unless you pay them a lot. Even then, you don't necessarily get people to do it for you. So you figure, well, there are a lot of people overseas who I could hire. So we need to create a program to hire them. But then it turns out there is still a concept of citizenship, which is normally required to live and work unencumbered in a particular nation. So they say, well, sure, let's just let them in as long as they promise to work in this profession for this employer. But now, you have two people doing the same job next to each other at the same desk, and one of them can change fields, move to a new city, take a new job, and do all those things we normally associate with freedom. And if an employer doesn't allow him or her to do these things, they'll change fields, take a new job, or move to a new city. So eventually the employer discovers that the restricted and unfree workers are easier to keep around, and you don't have to pay them as much. This starts to set the salary and working standards, so they people who are free start to avoid the field. Which makes it harder to get the free citizens to do the work, which makes it hard to get people to do programming for you. But then you figure, well, there are people overseas I could hire, so we need to expand the program so I can hire them... It's totally broken. A traditional concept of citizenship and a global workforce don't really work all that well together. Something is going to have to give.
- wheels 18y ago
  It was interesting experiencing that first hand. Not so much the exploitation, but the awkward position that you're put in when quitting your job could mean losing your entire life. I stuck it out at my last job for about a year longer than I was really comfortable with because I didn't want to take the chance of jeopardizing my permanent residence papers. I gave my notice within a couple weeks my permanent residence going though (and naturally, shifted over to working on my startup, another thing that was impossible for me to do previously :-) ).
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - geebee 18y ago
brentr 18y ago
Good. I'll get my post at CERN and then work on getting citizenship.
jwilliams 18y ago
The competition for skilled migrants is going to heat up. I think in 10 years many european countries and US states will be desperate for workers - particularly countries like Italy where population is aging rapidly. http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm

21 points by dangoldin 18y ago

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

Or they could allow East Europeans like me to work. Then I would not have come to the US. But ya' know what, you didn't want my poor over educated Eastern ass a few years ago, so I came to America, no regrets, fuck you people.

wheels 18y ago
From everything that I've gathered, in Germany at least, the process is less brain-dead than in the US. It's still brain-dead, but there's less insult added to injury. (Saying this as an American with permanent residence in Germany.)

hernan7 18y ago

No path to citizenship? Not interested, sorry.

pmjordan 18y ago
Most, if not all EU countries have provisions for obtaining citizenship after a certain number of years of residence. Or do you mean gaining citizenship after a certain number of years in any EU country?
- ardit33 18y ago
  Yes. Like in germany, where it takes about 16 years of living there to get a citizenship, and since you were not born there, you will always be a second class citizen, always. Plus in a typical racist/ethnocentric way, you have to renounce your motherland's country's citizenship. No, thanks. There is a real good reason USA attracts smart immigrants in droves. Even with the latest problems after 2001, this country will be able to attract more foreigner than any other country in europe.
  - fbailey 18y ago
    Germany 8 years ( with an immigration course 7 years - very good knowledge of german 6 years) - US 5 years. If you don't like germany got to the UK.
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
    - wheels 18y ago
      Details are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturalisation_as_a_German_citizen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law#Naturali... Permanent residence is a load of paperwork, but still fairly straightforward if you've been working in Germany for 5 years and as of the latest laws gives you the right to work and live anywhere in the EU.
  - mynameishere 18y ago
    Plus in a typical racist/ethnocentric way, you have to renounce your motherland's country's citizenship Oh, that's too much to ask. They don't allow phony citizenship, but only the real kind.
    - ardit33 18y ago
      but you will never be a "German" in their eyes, even if the passport they give you says so. Who is the one being phony?

geebee 18y ago

Sounds like this will cause problems similar to the H1B. The comments here have already shown this. Programming is hard, and it's hard to get people to do it for you unless you pay them a lot. Even then, you don't necessarily get people to do it for you. So you figure, well, there are a lot of people overseas who I could hire. So we need to create a program to hire them. But then it turns out there is still a concept of citizenship, which is normally required to live and work unencumbered in a particular nation. So they say, well, sure, let's just let them in as long as they promise to work in this profession for this employer. But now, you have two people doing the same job next to each other at the same desk, and one of them can change fields, move to a new city, take a new job, and do all those things we normally associate with freedom. And if an employer doesn't allow him or her to do these things, they'll change fields, take a new job, or move to a new city. So eventually the employer discovers that the restricted and unfree workers are easier to keep around, and you don't have to pay them as much. This starts to set the salary and working standards, so they people who are free start to avoid the field. Which makes it harder to get the free citizens to do the work, which makes it hard to get people to do programming for you. But then you figure, well, there are people overseas I could hire, so we need to expand the program so I can hire them... It's totally broken. A traditional concept of citizenship and a global workforce don't really work all that well together. Something is going to have to give.

wheels 18y ago
It was interesting experiencing that first hand. Not so much the exploitation, but the awkward position that you're put in when quitting your job could mean losing your entire life. I stuck it out at my last job for about a year longer than I was really comfortable with because I didn't want to take the chance of jeopardizing my permanent residence papers. I gave my notice within a couple weeks my permanent residence going though (and naturally, shifted over to working on my startup, another thing that was impossible for me to do previously :-) ).
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- geebee 18y ago

brentr 18y ago

Good. I'll get my post at CERN and then work on getting citizenship.

jwilliams 18y ago

The competition for skilled migrants is going to heat up. I think in 10 years many european countries and US states will be desperate for workers - particularly countries like Italy where population is aging rapidly. http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm