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I was born in a communist country, I know very well. The difference is, that I see both western and Chinese censorship. You see only the Chinese. And the Chine

I was born in a communist country, I know very well. The difference is, that I see both western and Chinese censorship. You see only the Chinese. And the Chinese see only western.

CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
The Chinese see the Chinese censorship very well and know Western "censorship" in nowhere on the same level.
- vetinari 4y ago
  Some Chinese can see it. Just like some Westerners see the western one. And many of them fall for the greener grass on the other side. It isn't.
  - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
    It's far, far from perfect, but the grass is definitely greener on this side. You'd have to be practically blind not to see that.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      And you would know because our guys are telling you so? They would never lie? Demonization of the opponent is a thing as old as warfare. While there are things that are wrong in China, there were waves of anti-China hysteria in the west. To find out cui bono I will leave for you.
      - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        No, I actually think "our guys" (for as far there is one voice about this) have been far too naive about China. I have lived long enough in China and know enough Chinese people in and outside of China to have a fairly good idea about Chinese censorship and propaganda. It's nothing compared to what we have here.
km3r 4y ago
What topics has the US government banned discussion on?
- vetinari 4y ago
  This is the first part of the nuance. I never said US government. I said establishment. Which topics do youtube/facebook/twitter censor? Or, slightly more specifically, which part of US government is officially responsible for this? https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-putin-s-propaganda-in-nato-s-east-1.1768820 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-p... Was there a law made to censor foreign countries? See? There is wide part of power that can use the delta between "Congress made a law" and "pressure was applied to get what we want". Actually, Chinese is very similar; there are no Xi Jinping or CCP decreees top down; the mechanism to chinese censorship is very similar to US one. But there it's no problem to mix it into Chinese government (or whatever, or whatever, they are all the same anyway).
  - marvin 4y ago
    It’s an absolutely huge difference of degree. Attempting to censor blatant lies, with the occasional and accidental half-truth mixed in, is a completely different beast from denying historic events and censoring factual reports of things that actually happened. You said «I don’t see any difference», and that statement at best implies that you haven’t looked at the situation closely enough. See e.g. the mountain of Western criticism of the United States’ torture program during the war on terror. The difference is night and day.
    - aiProgMach 4y ago
      It's absolutely huge difference of degree because you believe all what the western media tells you about "them" the enemies. Now just think what if all those sources are not as independent as you think and that the west actively makes advanced disinformation warfare against it's enemies (think about Venezuela for example and the coup attempt orchestrated there in the past few years, most people like to think of this as "revolution" against the tyranny instead of US backed coup). When you have this in mind you won't be able to differentiate between different types of censor and lies that much. This is harder than believing that "We're the good guys" ™ though.
ChefboyOG 4y ago
This is a false equivalence. There is censorship in both the West and China. There is also water in both a desert and a rainforest—but it would be ridiculous to say that rainforests and deserts are therefore equivalent in terms of water.
- vetinari 4y ago
  That's your POV, because you identify with one of the parties. Once you stop, you will see there is no desert or rainforest; it's the ideology inside your head telling you so. We are the good guys, after all.
  - heinternets 4y ago
    Post about Tiananmen Square, Tibetan rights, or Taiwan political status anywhere in China and what happens? What is the equivalent in Western countries?
    - michaelt 4y ago
      Copyrighted material and female nipples.
      - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        You've got to trolling, these things are nowhere on the same level and it's not even correct. You can talk all about copyrighted material you want and there are many many more female nipples to be found on the Western internet than on the Chinese internet.
    - duairc 4y ago
      Post about US funded biological weapons labs in Ukraine. I've seen half a dozen Twitter accounts banned and subreddits quarantined/banned over posting on that issue alone. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the claim myself, though Victoria Nuland's "denial"[1] certainly raised a few eyebrows. She said that Ukraine has biological "research facilities" and implied that it would be a very bad thing if any of these "research materials" fell into the hands of the Russian forces. Whether that counts as a "biological weapons lab" or not seems to just be arguing about semantics. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4
strathmeyer 4y ago
Wow how are you able to discuss western censorship on a western site? Is it embarrassing to troll for fascism for free or do you get paid for it?

I was born in a communist country, I know very well. The difference is, that I see both western and Chinese censorship. You see only the Chinese. And the Chinese see only western.

CorrectHorseBat 4y ago

The Chinese see the Chinese censorship very well and know Western "censorship" in nowhere on the same level.

vetinari 4y ago
Some Chinese can see it. Just like some Westerners see the western one. And many of them fall for the greener grass on the other side. It isn't.
- CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
  It's far, far from perfect, but the grass is definitely greener on this side. You'd have to be practically blind not to see that.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    And you would know because our guys are telling you so? They would never lie? Demonization of the opponent is a thing as old as warfare. While there are things that are wrong in China, there were waves of anti-China hysteria in the west. To find out cui bono I will leave for you.
    - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
      No, I actually think "our guys" (for as far there is one voice about this) have been far too naive about China. I have lived long enough in China and know enough Chinese people in and outside of China to have a fairly good idea about Chinese censorship and propaganda. It's nothing compared to what we have here.

km3r 4y ago

What topics has the US government banned discussion on?

vetinari 4y ago
This is the first part of the nuance. I never said US government. I said establishment. Which topics do youtube/facebook/twitter censor? Or, slightly more specifically, which part of US government is officially responsible for this? https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-putin-s-propaganda-in-nato-s-east-1.1768820 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-p... Was there a law made to censor foreign countries? See? There is wide part of power that can use the delta between "Congress made a law" and "pressure was applied to get what we want". Actually, Chinese is very similar; there are no Xi Jinping or CCP decreees top down; the mechanism to chinese censorship is very similar to US one. But there it's no problem to mix it into Chinese government (or whatever, or whatever, they are all the same anyway).
- marvin 4y ago
  It’s an absolutely huge difference of degree. Attempting to censor blatant lies, with the occasional and accidental half-truth mixed in, is a completely different beast from denying historic events and censoring factual reports of things that actually happened. You said «I don’t see any difference», and that statement at best implies that you haven’t looked at the situation closely enough. See e.g. the mountain of Western criticism of the United States’ torture program during the war on terror. The difference is night and day.
  - aiProgMach 4y ago
    It's absolutely huge difference of degree because you believe all what the western media tells you about "them" the enemies. Now just think what if all those sources are not as independent as you think and that the west actively makes advanced disinformation warfare against it's enemies (think about Venezuela for example and the coup attempt orchestrated there in the past few years, most people like to think of this as "revolution" against the tyranny instead of US backed coup). When you have this in mind you won't be able to differentiate between different types of censor and lies that much. This is harder than believing that "We're the good guys" ™ though.

ChefboyOG 4y ago

This is a false equivalence. There is censorship in both the West and China. There is also water in both a desert and a rainforest—but it would be ridiculous to say that rainforests and deserts are therefore equivalent in terms of water.

vetinari 4y ago
That's your POV, because you identify with one of the parties. Once you stop, you will see there is no desert or rainforest; it's the ideology inside your head telling you so. We are the good guys, after all.
- heinternets 4y ago
  Post about Tiananmen Square, Tibetan rights, or Taiwan political status anywhere in China and what happens? What is the equivalent in Western countries?
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Copyrighted material and female nipples.
    - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
      You've got to trolling, these things are nowhere on the same level and it's not even correct. You can talk all about copyrighted material you want and there are many many more female nipples to be found on the Western internet than on the Chinese internet.
  - duairc 4y ago
    Post about US funded biological weapons labs in Ukraine. I've seen half a dozen Twitter accounts banned and subreddits quarantined/banned over posting on that issue alone. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the claim myself, though Victoria Nuland's "denial"[1] certainly raised a few eyebrows. She said that Ukraine has biological "research facilities" and implied that it would be a very bad thing if any of these "research materials" fell into the hands of the Russian forces. Whether that counts as a "biological weapons lab" or not seems to just be arguing about semantics. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4

strathmeyer 4y ago

Wow how are you able to discuss western censorship on a western site? Is it embarrassing to troll for fascism for free or do you get paid for it?