11 ms·

I don't see any difference wrt western sites here. Try talking about topics that irritate western establishment on youtube/twitter/facebook and see what happens

I don't see any difference wrt western sites here. Try talking about topics that irritate western establishment on youtube/twitter/facebook and see what happens. In the end, it boils down to "us" (or "our guys") vs "them" (or "their guys").

deepsun 4y ago
There is a big difference. You probably never lived in a dictatorship country, if you seem to not see a difference.
- vetinari 4y ago
  I was born in a communist country, I know very well. The difference is, that I see both western and Chinese censorship. You see only the Chinese. And the Chinese see only western.
  - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
    The Chinese see the Chinese censorship very well and know Western "censorship" in nowhere on the same level.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      Some Chinese can see it. Just like some Westerners see the western one. And many of them fall for the greener grass on the other side. It isn't.
      - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        It's far, far from perfect, but the grass is definitely greener on this side. You'd have to be practically blind not to see that.
        vetinari 4y ago
        And you would know because our guys are telling you so? They would never lie? Demonization of the opponent is a thing as old as warfare. While there are things that are wrong in China, there were waves of anti-China hysteria in the west. To find out cui bono I will leave for you.
        CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        No, I actually think "our guys" (for as far there is one voice about this) have been far too naive about China. I have lived long enough in China and know enough Chinese people in and outside of China to have a fairly good idea about Chinese censorship and propaganda. It's nothing compared to what we have here.
  - km3r 4y ago
    What topics has the US government banned discussion on?
    - vetinari 4y ago
      This is the first part of the nuance. I never said US government. I said establishment. Which topics do youtube/facebook/twitter censor? Or, slightly more specifically, which part of US government is officially responsible for this? https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-putin-s-propaganda-in-nato-s-east-1.1768820 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-p... Was there a law made to censor foreign countries? See? There is wide part of power that can use the delta between "Congress made a law" and "pressure was applied to get what we want". Actually, Chinese is very similar; there are no Xi Jinping or CCP decreees top down; the mechanism to chinese censorship is very similar to US one. But there it's no problem to mix it into Chinese government (or whatever, or whatever, they are all the same anyway).
      - marvin 4y ago
        It’s an absolutely huge difference of degree. Attempting to censor blatant lies, with the occasional and accidental half-truth mixed in, is a completely different beast from denying historic events and censoring factual reports of things that actually happened. You said «I don’t see any difference», and that statement at best implies that you haven’t looked at the situation closely enough. See e.g. the mountain of Western criticism of the United States’ torture program during the war on terror. The difference is night and day.
        aiProgMach 4y ago
        It's absolutely huge difference of degree because you believe all what the western media tells you about "them" the enemies. Now just think what if all those sources are not as independent as you think and that the west actively makes advanced disinformation warfare against it's enemies (think about Venezuela for example and the coup attempt orchestrated there in the past few years, most people like to think of this as "revolution" against the tyranny instead of US backed coup). When you have this in mind you won't be able to differentiate between different types of censor and lies that much. This is harder than believing that "We're the good guys" ™ though.
  - ChefboyOG 4y ago
    This is a false equivalence. There is censorship in both the West and China. There is also water in both a desert and a rainforest—but it would be ridiculous to say that rainforests and deserts are therefore equivalent in terms of water.
    - vetinari 4y ago
      That's your POV, because you identify with one of the parties. Once you stop, you will see there is no desert or rainforest; it's the ideology inside your head telling you so. We are the good guys, after all.
      - heinternets 4y ago
        Post about Tiananmen Square, Tibetan rights, or Taiwan political status anywhere in China and what happens? What is the equivalent in Western countries?
        michaelt 4y ago
        Copyrighted material and female nipples.
        CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        You've got to trolling, these things are nowhere on the same level and it's not even correct. You can talk all about copyrighted material you want and there are many many more female nipples to be found on the Western internet than on the Chinese internet.
        duairc 4y ago
        Post about US funded biological weapons labs in Ukraine. I've seen half a dozen Twitter accounts banned and subreddits quarantined/banned over posting on that issue alone. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the claim myself, though Victoria Nuland's "denial"[1] certainly raised a few eyebrows. She said that Ukraine has biological "research facilities" and implied that it would be a very bad thing if any of these "research materials" fell into the hands of the Russian forces. Whether that counts as a "biological weapons lab" or not seems to just be arguing about semantics. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4
  - strathmeyer 4y ago
    Wow how are you able to discuss western censorship on a western site? Is it embarrassing to troll for fascism for free or do you get paid for it?
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  There are things I can say in China that I cannot say in the west, and vice versa. Which is worse is a matter of opinion. You say Chinas censorship is obviously worse, someone else think West the is worse. It's not hard to see this becomes a matter of opinion.
eloff 4y ago
You're really going to claim that you have the same freedom to criticize the government of China on TikTok inside China as you do to criticize the government of the US or other western county on Twitter? Do you work for the CCP? Because it's hard to imagine being so wrong by mistake.
- vetinari 4y ago
  Try to discuss Hunter Biden, Burisma and Ukraine. You will be muted as fast as in China. > Do you work for the CCP? Because it's hard to imagine being so wrong by mistake. Yeah, attack the character instead of the argument. In case you didn't notice, I say that censorship/deplatforming/banning from services is wrong, without regard who is doing it, period. I do not say that "their" is wrong and "our" is OK. That's why I noted that there is no difference between tiktok or twitter.
  - eloff 4y ago
    It's hard to believe you can view the two as equal. There is definitely censorship in the West and I agree it's bad too. But to say that it's somehow equal to what the CCP does requires a degree of self delusion that is simply staggering. So yes, I do sincerely find your character to be questionable. I'm not just throwing an ad hominem around to distract from a weakness in my argument.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    I'll note that your comment here is staying up no problem, which wouldn't be the case if you mentioned Winnie the Pooh in China.

deepsun 4y ago

There is a big difference. You probably never lived in a dictatorship country, if you seem to not see a difference.

vetinari 4y ago
I was born in a communist country, I know very well. The difference is, that I see both western and Chinese censorship. You see only the Chinese. And the Chinese see only western.
- CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
  The Chinese see the Chinese censorship very well and know Western "censorship" in nowhere on the same level.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Some Chinese can see it. Just like some Westerners see the western one. And many of them fall for the greener grass on the other side. It isn't.
    - CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
      It's far, far from perfect, but the grass is definitely greener on this side. You'd have to be practically blind not to see that.
      - vetinari 4y ago
        And you would know because our guys are telling you so? They would never lie? Demonization of the opponent is a thing as old as warfare. While there are things that are wrong in China, there were waves of anti-China hysteria in the west. To find out cui bono I will leave for you.
        CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        No, I actually think "our guys" (for as far there is one voice about this) have been far too naive about China. I have lived long enough in China and know enough Chinese people in and outside of China to have a fairly good idea about Chinese censorship and propaganda. It's nothing compared to what we have here.
- km3r 4y ago
  What topics has the US government banned discussion on?
  - vetinari 4y ago
    This is the first part of the nuance. I never said US government. I said establishment. Which topics do youtube/facebook/twitter censor? Or, slightly more specifically, which part of US government is officially responsible for this? https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-putin-s-propaganda-in-nato-s-east-1.1768820 https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/facebook-slammed-for-spreading-p... Was there a law made to censor foreign countries? See? There is wide part of power that can use the delta between "Congress made a law" and "pressure was applied to get what we want". Actually, Chinese is very similar; there are no Xi Jinping or CCP decreees top down; the mechanism to chinese censorship is very similar to US one. But there it's no problem to mix it into Chinese government (or whatever, or whatever, they are all the same anyway).
    - marvin 4y ago
      It’s an absolutely huge difference of degree. Attempting to censor blatant lies, with the occasional and accidental half-truth mixed in, is a completely different beast from denying historic events and censoring factual reports of things that actually happened. You said «I don’t see any difference», and that statement at best implies that you haven’t looked at the situation closely enough. See e.g. the mountain of Western criticism of the United States’ torture program during the war on terror. The difference is night and day.
      - aiProgMach 4y ago
        It's absolutely huge difference of degree because you believe all what the western media tells you about "them" the enemies. Now just think what if all those sources are not as independent as you think and that the west actively makes advanced disinformation warfare against it's enemies (think about Venezuela for example and the coup attempt orchestrated there in the past few years, most people like to think of this as "revolution" against the tyranny instead of US backed coup). When you have this in mind you won't be able to differentiate between different types of censor and lies that much. This is harder than believing that "We're the good guys" ™ though.
- ChefboyOG 4y ago
  This is a false equivalence. There is censorship in both the West and China. There is also water in both a desert and a rainforest—but it would be ridiculous to say that rainforests and deserts are therefore equivalent in terms of water.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    That's your POV, because you identify with one of the parties. Once you stop, you will see there is no desert or rainforest; it's the ideology inside your head telling you so. We are the good guys, after all.
    - heinternets 4y ago
      Post about Tiananmen Square, Tibetan rights, or Taiwan political status anywhere in China and what happens? What is the equivalent in Western countries?
      - michaelt 4y ago
        Copyrighted material and female nipples.
        CorrectHorseBat 4y ago
        You've got to trolling, these things are nowhere on the same level and it's not even correct. You can talk all about copyrighted material you want and there are many many more female nipples to be found on the Western internet than on the Chinese internet.
      - duairc 4y ago
        Post about US funded biological weapons labs in Ukraine. I've seen half a dozen Twitter accounts banned and subreddits quarantined/banned over posting on that issue alone. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the claim myself, though Victoria Nuland's "denial"[1] certainly raised a few eyebrows. She said that Ukraine has biological "research facilities" and implied that it would be a very bad thing if any of these "research materials" fell into the hands of the Russian forces. Whether that counts as a "biological weapons lab" or not seems to just be arguing about semantics. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y39veTO7kF4
- strathmeyer 4y ago
  Wow how are you able to discuss western censorship on a western site? Is it embarrassing to troll for fascism for free or do you get paid for it?
raspberry1337 4y ago
There are things I can say in China that I cannot say in the west, and vice versa. Which is worse is a matter of opinion. You say Chinas censorship is obviously worse, someone else think West the is worse. It's not hard to see this becomes a matter of opinion.

eloff 4y ago

You're really going to claim that you have the same freedom to criticize the government of China on TikTok inside China as you do to criticize the government of the US or other western county on Twitter? Do you work for the CCP? Because it's hard to imagine being so wrong by mistake.

vetinari 4y ago
Try to discuss Hunter Biden, Burisma and Ukraine. You will be muted as fast as in China. > Do you work for the CCP? Because it's hard to imagine being so wrong by mistake. Yeah, attack the character instead of the argument. In case you didn't notice, I say that censorship/deplatforming/banning from services is wrong, without regard who is doing it, period. I do not say that "their" is wrong and "our" is OK. That's why I noted that there is no difference between tiktok or twitter.
- eloff 4y ago
  It's hard to believe you can view the two as equal. There is definitely censorship in the West and I agree it's bad too. But to say that it's somehow equal to what the CCP does requires a degree of self delusion that is simply staggering. So yes, I do sincerely find your character to be questionable. I'm not just throwing an ad hominem around to distract from a weakness in my argument.
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  I'll note that your comment here is staying up no problem, which wouldn't be the case if you mentioned Winnie the Pooh in China.