6 ms·

Isn't it a poor reflection on our institutions when somebody like this can fail so much but be promoted into such important positions? I'm not super familiar wi

Isn't it a poor reflection on our institutions when somebody like this can fail so much but be promoted into such important positions? I'm not super familiar with EU or German politics, but literally everything I've heard about von der Leyen's efforts in past positions has been extremely negative and make it seem like she's demonstrated little but extreme incompetence...

ben_w 4y ago
Despite living in Berlin, my grasp of politics is also terrible. However, while I can’t say either way if she’s good at other things or not, the headlines aren’t going to answer that either way — news only covers emotionally charged events, and outside science, tech, and weather forecasts, that in turn makes everyone look bad most of the time.
- _vbnz 4y ago
  But the EU is super conservative - e.g. banning gene edited crops (now available in Brexit Britain at last - https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61537610 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61537610 ), the ridiculous cookie laws and GDPR restrictions, etc. Go live in the south of Germany and see how conservative it is - no card payments, little online delivery, a huge amount of bureaucracy, etc. And the EU forces that sort of bureaucratic conservatism on the whole of Europe, even though some countries like the UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, etc. are much more liberal and technologically progressive.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    While I would accept the EU is small-C conservative about GM, that was in response to public opinion — IIRC, every rule predating the Lisbon Treaty (2007) necessarily had unanimous (and not merely majority of both nations and people represented by those nations) support from the governments of the member states — and even then the EU doesn’t ban GM crops but rather it regulates them, and the UK had some such crops (and experiments) before leaving: https://ec.europa.eu/food/plants/genetically-modified-organisms/gmo-legislation_en https://ec.europa.eu/food/plants/genetically-modified-organi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food_in_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food_in_t... Indeed, the reason I as a vegetarian can have hard cheese is the use of GM bacterial rennet (not a crop, no idea how that changes the regulation rules). As for card payments, even in Berlin they are less common than in the U.K. prior to Brexit, but that variance by itself (and the increasingly cashless orientation of Sweden) demonstrates the EU isn’t being held back by German skepticism of non-cash money. Likewise in reverse (and to show this isn’t just an EU thing), when I visited California, I was shocked by how primitive and backward the payment systems were, especially given California has a reputation for being technologically progressive. However, even if I were to accept all of your claims, this makes little difference in either direction to my opinion of specifically Ursula von der Leyen, as questions of competence are a separate axis to each of liberty-vs-rules and dynamic-vs-conservative and left-vs-right. Edit: also, GDPR is in this context basically the same as the UK’s Data Protection Act 1998, it is just that nobody outside the U.K. paid any attention to the U.K. acting alone.
pfortuny 4y ago
Well, the position she holds is not democratically elected, she is a representative of representatives, so we (the EU citizens) have to bear with her (and any other EC leader) for [*5*] (edit) years just because our "governments" chose her. This essentially means that Germany & France (after Brexit) get to have a common opinion and then it is spread out so that somebody is elected. That is a simplification but it mostly works like that. So, the European Commission is not a democracy, it strictly speaking an oligarchy. The European Parliament is different. But the BIG money is managed by the EC.
- mcv 4y ago
  Unfortunately the European Parliament doesn't have enough power to check the European Commission. They can't approve or reject specific members of the commission, because the commission as a whole is a done deal between the national governments, and they'd have to reject the entire commission as a whole, which they're a lot more reluctant to do (because there are also always some good people in the commission).
  - pfortuny 4y ago
    Well, exactly. Even worse, don't you think?
    - mcv 4y ago
      I think this needs to change, yes. The European Parliament is the only democratic body on the EU level, and as such needs to have more power to at least check the Commission. Mind you, there's plenty about the European Parliament itself that could also use some improvement. They're still moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every month, for example.
      - Aerroon 4y ago
        Even if the EU Parliament gains more power, what difference will it make? The MEPs are from the same parties that the national governments are formed by. They're just grouped together slightly differently.
Semaphor 4y ago
It is sadly quite common for our politicians who are untenable nationally, to send them to the EU. From what I’ve heard, it’s similar for at least some other countries.
- mantas 4y ago
  100% here in Lithuania. Dead horses go for EP to stash nice €€€ till the end of days.
Aerroon 4y ago
In an EU country elections are held for the national parliament. The winning party usually creates a coalition with another party to create a majority in parliament. This gives them legislative powers. In a parliamentary system the legislature picks the prime minister (executive), therefore the coalition now controls the executive branch too. Now the executive branch appoints someone to the EU commission. The EU commission holds legislative power in the EU. EU parliamentary elections pick MEPs. The successful national parties are going to find now success in MEP elections, because they're already successful locally. This same national party is part of an EU-wide along with other similar parties from other EU nations. The elected MEPs will have EU-party affiliations based on that. Or in other words, it's the same groups of people in power on all of these levels.

ben_w 4y ago

Despite living in Berlin, my grasp of politics is also terrible. However, while I can’t say either way if she’s good at other things or not, the headlines aren’t going to answer that either way — news only covers emotionally charged events, and outside science, tech, and weather forecasts, that in turn makes everyone look bad most of the time.

_vbnz 4y ago
But the EU is super conservative - e.g. banning gene edited crops (now available in Brexit Britain at last - https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61537610 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61537610 ), the ridiculous cookie laws and GDPR restrictions, etc. Go live in the south of Germany and see how conservative it is - no card payments, little online delivery, a huge amount of bureaucracy, etc. And the EU forces that sort of bureaucratic conservatism on the whole of Europe, even though some countries like the UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, etc. are much more liberal and technologically progressive.
- ben_w 4y ago
  While I would accept the EU is small-C conservative about GM, that was in response to public opinion — IIRC, every rule predating the Lisbon Treaty (2007) necessarily had unanimous (and not merely majority of both nations and people represented by those nations) support from the governments of the member states — and even then the EU doesn’t ban GM crops but rather it regulates them, and the UK had some such crops (and experiments) before leaving: https://ec.europa.eu/food/plants/genetically-modified-organisms/gmo-legislation_en https://ec.europa.eu/food/plants/genetically-modified-organi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food_in_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food_in_t... Indeed, the reason I as a vegetarian can have hard cheese is the use of GM bacterial rennet (not a crop, no idea how that changes the regulation rules). As for card payments, even in Berlin they are less common than in the U.K. prior to Brexit, but that variance by itself (and the increasingly cashless orientation of Sweden) demonstrates the EU isn’t being held back by German skepticism of non-cash money. Likewise in reverse (and to show this isn’t just an EU thing), when I visited California, I was shocked by how primitive and backward the payment systems were, especially given California has a reputation for being technologically progressive. However, even if I were to accept all of your claims, this makes little difference in either direction to my opinion of specifically Ursula von der Leyen, as questions of competence are a separate axis to each of liberty-vs-rules and dynamic-vs-conservative and left-vs-right. Edit: also, GDPR is in this context basically the same as the UK’s Data Protection Act 1998, it is just that nobody outside the U.K. paid any attention to the U.K. acting alone.

pfortuny 4y ago

Well, the position she holds is not democratically elected, she is a representative of representatives, so we (the EU citizens) have to bear with her (and any other EC leader) for [*5*] (edit) years just because our "governments" chose her. This essentially means that Germany & France (after Brexit) get to have a common opinion and then it is spread out so that somebody is elected. That is a simplification but it mostly works like that. So, the European Commission is not a democracy, it strictly speaking an oligarchy. The European Parliament is different. But the BIG money is managed by the EC.

mcv 4y ago
Unfortunately the European Parliament doesn't have enough power to check the European Commission. They can't approve or reject specific members of the commission, because the commission as a whole is a done deal between the national governments, and they'd have to reject the entire commission as a whole, which they're a lot more reluctant to do (because there are also always some good people in the commission).
- pfortuny 4y ago
  Well, exactly. Even worse, don't you think?
  - mcv 4y ago
    I think this needs to change, yes. The European Parliament is the only democratic body on the EU level, and as such needs to have more power to at least check the Commission. Mind you, there's plenty about the European Parliament itself that could also use some improvement. They're still moving between Brussels and Strasbourg every month, for example.
    - Aerroon 4y ago
      Even if the EU Parliament gains more power, what difference will it make? The MEPs are from the same parties that the national governments are formed by. They're just grouped together slightly differently.

Semaphor 4y ago

It is sadly quite common for our politicians who are untenable nationally, to send them to the EU. From what I’ve heard, it’s similar for at least some other countries.

mantas 4y ago
100% here in Lithuania. Dead horses go for EP to stash nice €€€ till the end of days.

Aerroon 4y ago

In an EU country elections are held for the national parliament. The winning party usually creates a coalition with another party to create a majority in parliament. This gives them legislative powers. In a parliamentary system the legislature picks the prime minister (executive), therefore the coalition now controls the executive branch too. Now the executive branch appoints someone to the EU commission. The EU commission holds legislative power in the EU. EU parliamentary elections pick MEPs. The successful national parties are going to find now success in MEP elections, because they're already successful locally. This same national party is part of an EU-wide along with other similar parties from other EU nations. The elected MEPs will have EU-party affiliations based on that. Or in other words, it's the same groups of people in power on all of these levels.