3 ms·
That stance strikes me as untenable. People get consensually drunk while horny all the time, and act on it, usually without major regrets. Taking the hard line
by smolder 4y ago
That stance strikes me as untenable. People get consensually drunk while horny all the time, and act on it, usually without major regrets. Taking the hard line of requiring absolute sobriety for consent invites all sorts of other decision-making inhibitors to effectively invalidate consent. Anxiety disorder? Consent didn't count. Low blood sugar? Grieving a lost loved one? Tired from jogging? Didn't count.
I am wholly behind consent between children and adults of actually significant age gap being invalid (the standard creepiness rule from xkcd comes to mind,) but mental fitness to make the choice really is a blurry line and intents should be considered. Well-meaning people who had no intent to exploit or coerce are not rapists because of one voluntary beer, nor should the justice system treat them as such. It only encourages another kind of victimization via the courts.
- bowsamic 4y agoWhere is the line then? How are you going to argue to the judge that you were on the "anxiety disorder, single beer, diabetic" side of the line? Is that a risk that anyone will want to take?
- smolder 4y agoFortunately I don't have to write laws or adjudicate these things. I simply cannot draw a line at X number of beers, or whatever other arbitrary thing. Were they walking straight on their own and talking without slurred speech when they left or were they stumbling out? Did they go out specifically with intent to get laid by a stranger they haven't met yet? Did the would-be rapist encourage them to drink more, or order them strong drinks on purpose? Lots of factors would affect my opinion on whether it was a predatory situation or not. I think I would tend to believe victims are victims, though not if there are clues they are just playing one and using the sexual encounter as a weapon.
- bowsamic 4y agoBut, how are you going to make the decision in the future whether or not someone is sober enough to have sex with? > Did the would-be rapist encourage them to drink more, or order them strong drinks on purpose? That isn't the criteria, the criteria is whether or not the victim is too drunk to consent. How can you know this? > I think I would tend to believe victims are victims I don't think you would if you were the rapist who had misjudged the drunkenness of the other person
- smolder 4y agoI was here to tell you that non-sobriety doesn't always imply rape, which you claimed it did. Then I told you about how I am fortunate not to have to draw the actual line that determines what is rape legally, because it is hard to do. So, naturally I'm not interested in following this line of hypotheticals. I've never personally had issues identifying consent, never been accused of rape. Maybe I've been lucky, maybe I've made the right choices regarding partners. It's beside the point that I came to make. You seem to have made yours as well.
- ncmncm 4y agoI had a friend, around that time, who some years before had some sort of disagreement with some guy. That guy's girlfriend filed a rape charge against my friend. He was convicted and served seven years, solely on her say-so.