5 ms·

Interesting, I guess that's one aspect of software systems that doesn't come to my mind right away. With the increase in the amount of microprocessors in each c

by laluser 15y ago

Interesting, I guess that's one aspect of software systems that doesn't come to my mind right away. With the increase in the amount of microprocessors in each car and as the code behind all that processing becomes more intelligent, I wonder if these complexities will make cases like this more prevalent.

0x12 15y ago
Of course it will. The worst bit is that it won't be just your audio system not working either, but some critical part. Cruise control malfunctions can be relatively benign or they can be the equivalent of someone stomping on the accelerator.
- laluser 15y ago
  Car mechanics: the next generation of programmers?
  - shabble 15y ago
    No more so than an "IT Support Technician" who comes to reflash your BIOS and maybe install a few Windows patches. The real hackers are screwing around with (hopefully their own) ECUs: http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/ http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/
shabble 15y ago
I'm not sure it's so much the quantity of controllers/code, but the quantity and quality of the interfaces between them. If I were writing something like this, there'd be a very clear demarcation of "safety critical throttle/brakes/steering stuff" | "blinky lights and radio" I suspect that it starts out that way when the engineers are arguing about the liability issues of going full-throttle at random, but then it becomes standard, everyone gets a bit blasé, and before you know it the assistant vice-chairhorse of marketing is talking about how cool it'd be if your radio gets louder as you speed up. Even then, I'd be arguing in favour of something like a data diode[1]. I can't think of any non-critical system that should have input to the cruise control[2] [1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Unidirectional_network https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Unidirectiona... [2] Of course, if it did, I'd claim it was by definition now a critical system. :)
- regularfry 15y ago
  > If I were writing something like this, there'd be a very clear demarcation of "safety critical throttle/brakes/steering stuff" | "blinky lights and radio" As an ex-blinky-lights-and-radio tech, I can assure you that they are clearly separated. Admittedly, my experience is limited to BMWs, but there's enough shared knowledge across the industry about the Right Way to do this stuff that I'd be surprised if Jaguar had made that mistake.
  - topbanana 15y ago
    I have heard that there are separate buses for these things, but how does information propagate between them? For example, if my ABS fails, how does it pop up into the service menu on iDrive?
    - regularfry 15y ago
      The instrument pack in the dashboard is connected to both buses. It needs real-time data from the drive systems to display speed and so on, so it's used as a hub.

by laluser 15y ago

0x12 15y ago

Of course it will. The worst bit is that it won't be just your audio system not working either, but some critical part. Cruise control malfunctions can be relatively benign or they can be the equivalent of someone stomping on the accelerator.

laluser 15y ago
Car mechanics: the next generation of programmers?
- shabble 15y ago
  No more so than an "IT Support Technician" who comes to reflash your BIOS and maybe install a few Windows patches. The real hackers are screwing around with (hopefully their own) ECUs: http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/ http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/

shabble 15y ago

I'm not sure it's so much the quantity of controllers/code, but the quantity and quality of the interfaces between them. If I were writing something like this, there'd be a very clear demarcation of "safety critical throttle/brakes/steering stuff" | "blinky lights and radio" I suspect that it starts out that way when the engineers are arguing about the liability issues of going full-throttle at random, but then it becomes standard, everyone gets a bit blasé, and before you know it the assistant vice-chairhorse of marketing is talking about how cool it'd be if your radio gets louder as you speed up. Even then, I'd be arguing in favour of something like a data diode[1]. I can't think of any non-critical system that should have input to the cruise control[2] [1] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Unidirectional_network https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Unidirectiona... [2] Of course, if it did, I'd claim it was by definition now a critical system. :)

regularfry 15y ago
> If I were writing something like this, there'd be a very clear demarcation of "safety critical throttle/brakes/steering stuff" | "blinky lights and radio" As an ex-blinky-lights-and-radio tech, I can assure you that they are clearly separated. Admittedly, my experience is limited to BMWs, but there's enough shared knowledge across the industry about the Right Way to do this stuff that I'd be surprised if Jaguar had made that mistake.
- topbanana 15y ago
  I have heard that there are separate buses for these things, but how does information propagate between them? For example, if my ABS fails, how does it pop up into the service menu on iDrive?
  - regularfry 15y ago
    The instrument pack in the dashboard is connected to both buses. It needs real-time data from the drive systems to display speed and so on, so it's used as a hub.