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The torture seems similar, but the scale is completely different. In Xinjiang, it’s been at least 1.2 million people making up a sizable portion of all Uighur M

The torture seems similar, but the scale is completely different. In Xinjiang, it’s been at least 1.2 million people making up a sizable portion of all Uighur Muslims. That’s compared to around 800 people in Guantanamo Bay (and only about 40 remaining there). Guantanamo Bay is completely horrible and should never have happened, but it wasn’t genocide.

coffeeblack 4y ago
How is the torture “similar”?
- thematrixturtle 4y ago
  Did you see the photo of hundreds of hooded and shackled people kneeling out in the sun?
trasz 4y ago
Can you point me to the documents describing systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture in those “camps”? Guantanamo is indeed different, because it was only used for people to extract information from - vast majority of “war against terrorism” victims have been simply killed instead.
- md_ 4y ago
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071
  - trasz 4y ago
    You will find similar testimonies about prisons in western countries. It’s sad, but unavoidable due to scale.
    - signatoremo 4y ago
      Care to show those similar testimonies so we can compare?
      - trasz 4y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_St..., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States, I’m sure there’s more on Wikipedia alone.
        signatoremo 4y ago
        Ugh, the question is about systemic torture. Your counterpoints are not. As terrible as the condition in US prisons can be, those prisoners are convicted. The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion. Your profile says, “Hates when people get killed, especially for religion and oil”, yet you seem to be completely contradictory in that regards throughout this thread.
        trasz 4y ago
        My counterpoint is about demonstrating that while the sources document mass detention, they don’t show that the cases of other abuse are systemic - to me it seems they are not mandated by the system, rather, they are individual crimes committed by the guards, and the US prison system is an example of how this problem also exists elsewhere and might be unavoidable at this scale. >The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion. And the vast majority of them are fine. It’s not like Iraquis killed by US troops simply for “being a certain race and practicing a certain religion”.
    - md_ 4y ago
      Two points: 1. I'm confused. Your original request was, "Can you point me to the documents describing systemic torture in those 'camps'?" Clearly the BBC article outlines fairly substantial evidence of systemic torture in Chinese-run prison camps in Xinjiang. Would you not agree? 2. It's possible for one to criticize the human rights abuses in American prisons--which absolutely exist, I agree--while simultaneously criticizing the human rights abuses in Chinese prisons. If we must make a comparison of scale, the Chinese ones seem far, far worse, of course. But I don't think we need make a comparison; this thread was about Chinese prison camps, and you asked for evidence of systemic torture (which I provided); that you then choose to bring up "similar" behavior in western countries is...strange. It's almost like you are trying to change the subject, repeatedly and unsuccessfully.
- trhway 4y ago
  >systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture having systemically rogue prison guards (say because they never really get punished and everybody aware about it, and frequently even with tacit approval) is a form of systemic torture. Have been this way in USSR/Russia for example.
  - trasz 4y ago
    Of course. But the sources don’t show this to be the case, it’s just an assumption.
livinglist 4y ago
where do you see the evidence of fortune?? have u even tried learning about terrorist attacks against ordinary citizens in China?
- signatoremo 4y ago
  Are millions of Uyghurs interned all terrorists?

coffeeblack 4y ago

How is the torture “similar”?

thematrixturtle 4y ago
Did you see the photo of hundreds of hooded and shackled people kneeling out in the sun?

trasz 4y ago

Can you point me to the documents describing systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture in those “camps”? Guantanamo is indeed different, because it was only used for people to extract information from - vast majority of “war against terrorism” victims have been simply killed instead.

md_ 4y ago
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071
- trasz 4y ago
  You will find similar testimonies about prisons in western countries. It’s sad, but unavoidable due to scale.
  - signatoremo 4y ago
    Care to show those similar testimonies so we can compare?
    - trasz 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_St..., https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture_in_the_United_States, I’m sure there’s more on Wikipedia alone.
      - signatoremo 4y ago
        Ugh, the question is about systemic torture. Your counterpoints are not. As terrible as the condition in US prisons can be, those prisoners are convicted. The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion. Your profile says, “Hates when people get killed, especially for religion and oil”, yet you seem to be completely contradictory in that regards throughout this thread.
        trasz 4y ago
        My counterpoint is about demonstrating that while the sources document mass detention, they don’t show that the cases of other abuse are systemic - to me it seems they are not mandated by the system, rather, they are individual crimes committed by the guards, and the US prison system is an example of how this problem also exists elsewhere and might be unavoidable at this scale. >The only crimes the millions of Uyghurs committed are being of a certain race and practicing a certain religion. And the vast majority of them are fine. It’s not like Iraquis killed by US troops simply for “being a certain race and practicing a certain religion”.
  - md_ 4y ago
    Two points: 1. I'm confused. Your original request was, "Can you point me to the documents describing systemic torture in those 'camps'?" Clearly the BBC article outlines fairly substantial evidence of systemic torture in Chinese-run prison camps in Xinjiang. Would you not agree? 2. It's possible for one to criticize the human rights abuses in American prisons--which absolutely exist, I agree--while simultaneously criticizing the human rights abuses in Chinese prisons. If we must make a comparison of scale, the Chinese ones seem far, far worse, of course. But I don't think we need make a comparison; this thread was about Chinese prison camps, and you asked for evidence of systemic torture (which I provided); that you then choose to bring up "similar" behavior in western countries is...strange. It's almost like you are trying to change the subject, repeatedly and unsuccessfully.
trhway 4y ago
>systemic (EDIT: Systemic, as opposed to a crime committed by a rogue prison guard) torture having systemically rogue prison guards (say because they never really get punished and everybody aware about it, and frequently even with tacit approval) is a form of systemic torture. Have been this way in USSR/Russia for example.
- trasz 4y ago
  Of course. But the sources don’t show this to be the case, it’s just an assumption.

livinglist 4y ago

where do you see the evidence of fortune?? have u even tried learning about terrorist attacks against ordinary citizens in China?

signatoremo 4y ago
Are millions of Uyghurs interned all terrorists?