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Maybe a stupid question, but doesn't the remote environment run basically the same software? Or at least the same software as a local container or VM would? If

Maybe a stupid question, but doesn't the remote environment run basically the same software? Or at least the same software as a local container or VM would? If so, why would this break less often?

rjzzleep 4y ago
You hit the nail on its head. There is absolutely no reason why the remote environment doesn't have exactly the same issue the local environment has. It will still need its rbenv etc for any sort of ruby/node/python etc versioning. I think what the person above means when he says "local breaks ALL THE TIME", the reality is that every now and then during major OS updates MacOS may make major breaking changes in system libraries or library locations, which in the past would famously break Ruby on Rails development environments. There's also the fact that Windows fits in the same category. So when he talks about fixing dev environments what he really means is consolidating the dev environment in linux.
- daenz 4y ago
  At a previous job, we self hosted our version control software, and when it broke, you could practically hear the money being poured down the drain, as the SREs scrambled to figure out why and get us back into a working state. At least when things break locally, they (usually) don't break for everyone. I get that there are pros and cons to each pattern, but I agree that the remote dev crowd is glossing over the fact that these remote envs break too, and the impact is huge.
- simonw 4y ago
  I have seen environments break in so many different ways - especially for less experienced developers.
simonw 4y ago
200 engineers means 200 subtly different laptop environments, each of which could break in slightly different ways. With a good remote environment solution, each engineer can click a link and get a pre-tested, standardized development environment. They can then break it in any way they like... but then they can click that link again to get a fresh, working environment again. Imagine if any time you broke yoir environment your IT department could hand you a fresh laptop with a working environment on it. It's that.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  So why remote instead of a container or VM?
  - simonw 4y ago
    We started out giving people a VM (using Vagrant). We later moved to having people run Docker containers on their laptops instead (Docker for Mac). Engineers - junior and experienced - found new ways to break both of those, constantly.

Maybe a stupid question, but doesn't the remote environment run basically the same software? Or at least the same software as a local container or VM would? If so, why would this break less often?

rjzzleep 4y ago

You hit the nail on its head. There is absolutely no reason why the remote environment doesn't have exactly the same issue the local environment has. It will still need its rbenv etc for any sort of ruby/node/python etc versioning. I think what the person above means when he says "local breaks ALL THE TIME", the reality is that every now and then during major OS updates MacOS may make major breaking changes in system libraries or library locations, which in the past would famously break Ruby on Rails development environments. There's also the fact that Windows fits in the same category. So when he talks about fixing dev environments what he really means is consolidating the dev environment in linux.

daenz 4y ago
At a previous job, we self hosted our version control software, and when it broke, you could practically hear the money being poured down the drain, as the SREs scrambled to figure out why and get us back into a working state. At least when things break locally, they (usually) don't break for everyone. I get that there are pros and cons to each pattern, but I agree that the remote dev crowd is glossing over the fact that these remote envs break too, and the impact is huge.
simonw 4y ago
I have seen environments break in so many different ways - especially for less experienced developers.

simonw 4y ago

200 engineers means 200 subtly different laptop environments, each of which could break in slightly different ways. With a good remote environment solution, each engineer can click a link and get a pre-tested, standardized development environment. They can then break it in any way they like... but then they can click that link again to get a fresh, working environment again. Imagine if any time you broke yoir environment your IT department could hand you a fresh laptop with a working environment on it. It's that.

diffeomorphism 4y ago
So why remote instead of a container or VM?
- simonw 4y ago
  We started out giving people a VM (using Vagrant). We later moved to having people run Docker containers on their laptops instead (Docker for Mac). Engineers - junior and experienced - found new ways to break both of those, constantly.