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This reddit thread might be informative: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/t9klju/this_is_troubling/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/t9klju/this_is_t

This reddit thread might be informative: https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/t9klju/this_is_troubling/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/t9klju/this_is_troubli... My question would be: if someone commits a crime, then is punished for that crime according to the law... does some form of punishment have to continue once they're released from prison. That's what seems to be happening here.

deleted 4y ago
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sp332 4y ago
I don't think it's about punishment. [Edit] they're not asking for the other person to be kicked out or anything. They just don't want to be forced to interact personally.
- antiquark 4y ago
  "Current abusers" or "ex-abusers"? They seem similar, but they're different.
  - sp332 4y ago
    I don't think it would work to force people to use a certain metric. They have to be free to avoid whoever they want to avoid, or else they will self-select out of the community, as happened here.
  - tragictrash 4y ago
    Convicted of rape and in possession of CSAM is all that matters to me. They're going to want to re-offend for the rest of their life. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Either way we should destroy the individual. https://patricia.no/2022/03/08/proposed-cppcon_safety__transparency_report.html https://patricia.no/2022/03/08/proposed-cppcon_safety__trans...
bluefirebrand 4y ago
I think the logic is always along the lines of "If they did it once, they are probably capable of doing it again. Is society obligated to give them opportunities to do so" If you strongly believe prison is for rehabilitation, you probably want to give people plenty of chances. If you strongly believe prison is for punishment, then likely you give people few chances and want their crimes to follow them forever. The best approach is probably neither extreme but something more balanced with a case by case appraisal based on risk.
- captainredbeard 4y ago
  False dichotomy: another possible driver is imprisonment in order to sequester dangerous people away. Not punishment, not rehab, but protection.
  - quantified 4y ago
    Effectively prison, but if you're not after the punishment aspect after a certain length of time the setting might be different. Not as cool a place as Australia, but there's a lot of federal land.
- londgine 4y ago
  there's another option. I want prison to be for rehabilitation, to the point where someone's sentence can be extended / reduced based on how they recovered (not sure how to measure that). however, I also believe that US prisons are not like that. therefore, until the prisons get reformed, I will treat ex-cons as not rehabilitated.
srvmshr 4y ago
Purely from the legal lens: judiciary sets an appropriate punishment for crimes but if the punishment continues in some form after the term, that is stigma. Correctional reforms now also target the public education & conscience in the broad sense, because finding employment & societal reintegration for ex-felons is a stark issue. The Nordic model is a better example where punishment is being conditioned to be thought of as a payment/tax for misdeeds. Once it is done with, you are morally 'free person' in the public eye. This is an important issue because a significant minority in prison pools are innocent or having disproportionate punishment. And historically we have grown to remember crimes as a stigma not as correction.
colechristensen 4y ago
Certain kinds of crime: absolutely. Sex offender registries exist explicitly for this purpose, for society to permanently treat you differently because of what you did.
- Thiez 4y ago
  They don't exist in most societies though. Just because your society happens to have such public registries, doesn't make it some objective truth that such registries are a good idea.

deleted 4y ago

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sp332 4y ago

I don't think it's about punishment. [Edit] they're not asking for the other person to be kicked out or anything. They just don't want to be forced to interact personally.

antiquark 4y ago
"Current abusers" or "ex-abusers"? They seem similar, but they're different.
- sp332 4y ago
  I don't think it would work to force people to use a certain metric. They have to be free to avoid whoever they want to avoid, or else they will self-select out of the community, as happened here.
- tragictrash 4y ago
  Convicted of rape and in possession of CSAM is all that matters to me. They're going to want to re-offend for the rest of their life. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Either way we should destroy the individual. https://patricia.no/2022/03/08/proposed-cppcon_safety__transparency_report.html https://patricia.no/2022/03/08/proposed-cppcon_safety__trans...

bluefirebrand 4y ago

I think the logic is always along the lines of "If they did it once, they are probably capable of doing it again. Is society obligated to give them opportunities to do so" If you strongly believe prison is for rehabilitation, you probably want to give people plenty of chances. If you strongly believe prison is for punishment, then likely you give people few chances and want their crimes to follow them forever. The best approach is probably neither extreme but something more balanced with a case by case appraisal based on risk.

captainredbeard 4y ago
False dichotomy: another possible driver is imprisonment in order to sequester dangerous people away. Not punishment, not rehab, but protection.
- quantified 4y ago
  Effectively prison, but if you're not after the punishment aspect after a certain length of time the setting might be different. Not as cool a place as Australia, but there's a lot of federal land.
londgine 4y ago
there's another option. I want prison to be for rehabilitation, to the point where someone's sentence can be extended / reduced based on how they recovered (not sure how to measure that). however, I also believe that US prisons are not like that. therefore, until the prisons get reformed, I will treat ex-cons as not rehabilitated.

srvmshr 4y ago

Purely from the legal lens: judiciary sets an appropriate punishment for crimes but if the punishment continues in some form after the term, that is stigma. Correctional reforms now also target the public education & conscience in the broad sense, because finding employment & societal reintegration for ex-felons is a stark issue. The Nordic model is a better example where punishment is being conditioned to be thought of as a payment/tax for misdeeds. Once it is done with, you are morally 'free person' in the public eye. This is an important issue because a significant minority in prison pools are innocent or having disproportionate punishment. And historically we have grown to remember crimes as a stigma not as correction.

colechristensen 4y ago

Certain kinds of crime: absolutely. Sex offender registries exist explicitly for this purpose, for society to permanently treat you differently because of what you did.

Thiez 4y ago
They don't exist in most societies though. Just because your society happens to have such public registries, doesn't make it some objective truth that such registries are a good idea.