3 ms·

> Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...? The Portugal narrative hasn't actually been as positive as initially r

> Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...? The Portugal narrative hasn't actually been as positive as initially reported by the Cato papers that were based on the first few years following the policy change. More recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths that doesn't really support the initially successful picture of their program. One of the challenges with interpreting the Portugal data is that they had relatively low drug use to begin with. The initial declarations of victory for their decriminalization programs were based on relatively small numbers and sample sizes that wouldn't pass muster in more rigorous analysis. I know the narrative about Portugal was set years ago by the Cato papers and a few authors, but it isn't really the success story that it's made out to be. It did, however, reduce the number of drug-related prosecutions, though that's an obvious downstream effect of removing a class of drug-related offenses.

heavyset_go 4y ago
The opioid and fentanyl epidemic exploded over this last decade and earlier. If the data you say exists shows this trend, I'd like to that trend compared to the corresponding trends elsewhere in the world. In the US[1], for example, drug overdose deaths went from about 20k in 2001 to 40k in ~2006, then to 80k in the mid to late 2010's, and now over 100k as of last year[2]. [1] https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/20211117.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/...
_jal 4y ago
Do you know of a good source of info? > recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths Depends on the numbers, of course. But I think that is what folks realistically should have expected. Most societies tolerate the same with alcohol.
- wombatpm 4y ago
  Here is an excellent interactive tool for the last 20 years. https://www.norc.org/Research/Projects/Pages/appalachian-overdose-mapping-tool.aspx https://www.norc.org/Research/Projects/Pages/appalachian-ove...
raxxorraxor 4y ago
Drug usage increased in almost all places on the globe or perhaps we have better means to track it. You have to compare it with instances where drug prosecution is strict and those places saw an even higher rise in drug abuses and drug death. By significant margins in some cases bordering on a complete other magnitude. I think Fentanyl in the US is a good example although it also increased in Europe. In countries where usage and dealings are illegal too.
guerrilla 4y ago
> narrative Thing is, it's actually better there, regardless of what papers are written. Everyone's healthier, using less drugs and there's less violence. Like HIV dropped by 90% among drug users, being the original goal, this is quite a success. Drug related deaths dropped to by 85%.

heavyset_go 4y ago

The opioid and fentanyl epidemic exploded over this last decade and earlier. If the data you say exists shows this trend, I'd like to that trend compared to the corresponding trends elsewhere in the world. In the US[1], for example, drug overdose deaths went from about 20k in 2001 to 40k in ~2006, then to 80k in the mid to late 2010's, and now over 100k as of last year[2]. [1] https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://nida.nih.gov/drug-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/20211117.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/nchs_press_releases/2021/...

_jal 4y ago

Do you know of a good source of info? > recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths Depends on the numbers, of course. But I think that is what folks realistically should have expected. Most societies tolerate the same with alcohol.

wombatpm 4y ago
Here is an excellent interactive tool for the last 20 years. https://www.norc.org/Research/Projects/Pages/appalachian-overdose-mapping-tool.aspx https://www.norc.org/Research/Projects/Pages/appalachian-ove...

raxxorraxor 4y ago

Drug usage increased in almost all places on the globe or perhaps we have better means to track it. You have to compare it with instances where drug prosecution is strict and those places saw an even higher rise in drug abuses and drug death. By significant margins in some cases bordering on a complete other magnitude. I think Fentanyl in the US is a good example although it also increased in Europe. In countries where usage and dealings are illegal too.

guerrilla 4y ago

> narrative Thing is, it's actually better there, regardless of what papers are written. Everyone's healthier, using less drugs and there's less violence. Like HIV dropped by 90% among drug users, being the original goal, this is quite a success. Drug related deaths dropped to by 85%.