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Recently bought land for farming, all the soil is pretty compacted clay and full of limestone. I've tried a lot of things to change or avoid certain soil condi

Recently bought land for farming, all the soil is pretty compacted clay and full of limestone. I've tried a lot of things to change or avoid certain soil conditions. But for one thing it gets a lot easier when you're planting trees and perennials that don't mind the soil you have. Some things I've done for veg gardens: Some raised beds built with locust wood -- relatively cheap in my area and lasts forever outdoors. They're about 2ft deep and dirt and compost on top of about 1ft of logs. We are repeating this process in a larger garden without raising the beds. We're basically using what we have to produce something like Hügelkultur[0]. One of our advantages is that we have tons of rotting wood and grasses, we plan to use that as much as possible to produce soil that works well for annual veg. To prep the ground we plowed with a rotary plow to invert the sod. The grass had 6 months to decompose then we harrowed -- tilling but no soil inversion. Essentially tines sink into the ground and rotate on a plate parallel to the ground. In some of the hardest areas we used a sub-soiler attached to a 2-wheel tractor, which creates a disturbance beneath the hard pan so that roots can get in. A few years ago we did a big garden directly in straw bales -- I can't remember exactly the details. It was cool because you could grow stuff all over the sides too. The downside was that it's pretty expensive to set up and it's torn down every year. We planted a bunch of apple trees. For that we used an auger attached to a sub-compact tractor to get holes. This was pretty rough with the rocks and clay especially because the auger does not have reverse. Which meant that every time it got stuck we had to disassemble it, drill a 2x4 into the side and spit it out by hand. Once we had the holes we put a mix of dirt, lime, compost. The trees seem to be doing great. Our main thing is willow trees which don't seem to mind the clay at all. But getting them in the ground required a rotary hammer drill. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCgelkultur https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%BCgelkultur

Fiahil 4y ago
> We planted a bunch of apple trees. For that we used an auger attached to a sub-compact tractor to get holes. This was pretty rough with the rocks and clay especially because the auger does not have reverse. Which meant that every time it got stuck we had to disassemble it, drill a 2x4 into the side and spit it out by hand. While planting trees was absolutely the best choice, you could have avoided most of the physical efforts, the auger and the disassembly, by just planting younger trees. Most trees develop their full strength after a year. You can grow them from seeds, wait a year or two, then delicately plant them with a mix of clay and compost in a small hole. You would have traded physical efforts for patience, but trees fare better when they are not transplanted. Also, roots grow thicker and stronger in compacted soil (https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-5696-7_11 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-5696-7_...) this often leads to a better anchorage.
- Broken_Hippo 4y ago
  Apple trees are not good candidates for starting from seed - not if you want to eat the apples afterwards. Most apple trees are started from cuttings (cloning!). Otherwise, you might just wind up with apples that aren't good for much but cider (the alcoholic sort). Johnny Appleseed, a figure from American history that has been mythologized, realistically went around spreading apples for alcohol. This is the same reason folks could "find" or own a prized apple tree: The apples tasted delicious. It is quite possible that another variety of fruit tree produces better results when growing from trees, but I don't know. I only know the apple bit because my father tried starting an apple orchard before his health started deteriorating.
  - elhudy 4y ago
    Wait - apple trees started from seed have high odds of not growing apples like those that they came from? What are the odds of such a mutation?
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      It varies based on the plant. The phrase you're looking for is called 'true to seed.'. For some plants it's odds of 1:100,000 and for others it varies an order of magnitude in either direction. Don't try growing avocados from seed either. You'll get some disgusting fruit, most probably, in this little genetic lottery after 5-10 years. You can buy presorted seeds that'll grow good fruit, but they're awfully expensive and take roughly a decade to grow. Most fruit trees are just grown via cloning/grafting.
      - elhudy 4y ago
        Jeez here i thought i knew a lot about gardening / ag. I would never have guessed nature worked that way! That said i wouldn’t mind a few apple trees for cider myself.
        formerkrogemp 4y ago

Fiahil 4y ago

> We planted a bunch of apple trees. For that we used an auger attached to a sub-compact tractor to get holes. This was pretty rough with the rocks and clay especially because the auger does not have reverse. Which meant that every time it got stuck we had to disassemble it, drill a 2x4 into the side and spit it out by hand. While planting trees was absolutely the best choice, you could have avoided most of the physical efforts, the auger and the disassembly, by just planting younger trees. Most trees develop their full strength after a year. You can grow them from seeds, wait a year or two, then delicately plant them with a mix of clay and compost in a small hole. You would have traded physical efforts for patience, but trees fare better when they are not transplanted. Also, roots grow thicker and stronger in compacted soil (https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-5696-7_11 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-011-5696-7_...) this often leads to a better anchorage.

Broken_Hippo 4y ago
Apple trees are not good candidates for starting from seed - not if you want to eat the apples afterwards. Most apple trees are started from cuttings (cloning!). Otherwise, you might just wind up with apples that aren't good for much but cider (the alcoholic sort). Johnny Appleseed, a figure from American history that has been mythologized, realistically went around spreading apples for alcohol. This is the same reason folks could "find" or own a prized apple tree: The apples tasted delicious. It is quite possible that another variety of fruit tree produces better results when growing from trees, but I don't know. I only know the apple bit because my father tried starting an apple orchard before his health started deteriorating.
- elhudy 4y ago
  Wait - apple trees started from seed have high odds of not growing apples like those that they came from? What are the odds of such a mutation?
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    It varies based on the plant. The phrase you're looking for is called 'true to seed.'. For some plants it's odds of 1:100,000 and for others it varies an order of magnitude in either direction. Don't try growing avocados from seed either. You'll get some disgusting fruit, most probably, in this little genetic lottery after 5-10 years. You can buy presorted seeds that'll grow good fruit, but they're awfully expensive and take roughly a decade to grow. Most fruit trees are just grown via cloning/grafting.
    - elhudy 4y ago
      Jeez here i thought i knew a lot about gardening / ag. I would never have guessed nature worked that way! That said i wouldn’t mind a few apple trees for cider myself.
      - formerkrogemp 4y ago