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There is an interesting speculation that perhaps most of its way the missiles where in either in the radar shadow of the Snake island or the island added suffic

by _0w8t 4y ago

There is an interesting speculation that perhaps most of its way the missiles where in either in the radar shadow of the Snake island or the island added sufficient noise to hide the missiles.

ckozlowski 4y ago
It's possible they had fired them from the coast behind the island, doglegged them around the island (I dunno if the Neptune has this capability, but older AShMs do, so I don't think it's unreasonable), and therefor reduced the possible reaction time of the Moskava as they would have appeared only 40-50 miles away as opposed to 80, according to this map and my rough Google Earth estimates. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/satellite-image-pinpoints-russian-cruiser-moskva-as-she-burned/#prettyPhoto https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/satellite-image... Doing some really rough napkin math gives you 3-6 minutes of warning, assuming the missiles were detected the moment they cleared the island. The island wouldn't have generated "noise" (doesn't work like that) but as a shadow, sure. I don't know that I would say that was the winning factor however. But now that I think about it, given how tiny (some consider it a rock, not an island) Snake Island is, you'd have to be darn precise to get your launchers on a spot on the coast to perfectly place the island between them and the ship, and I can't see those constraints being practical to make an attack in a timely fashion. So I suspect it's a stretch at best. (On the other hand and slightly unrelated, in the flight sim DCS World, we'd take AJS-37 Viggens with RB-15 AShMs and dogleg missiles around features against ships on the Persian Gulf map. This sorta angling becomes a lot easier if your launch platform is far more mobile like an aircraft. Depending on where your target is, you can set up some good ambushes with very little warning if you get your timing right. It's part of the reason the littoral areas can be so darn scary to fight in.)
- _0w8t 4y ago
  There are some military installations on the island that can reflect the radar signal and that are placed on top of the island, close to 40 meters above the see.

by _0w8t 4y ago

There is an interesting speculation that perhaps most of its way the missiles where in either in the radar shadow of the Snake island or the island added sufficient noise to hide the missiles.

ckozlowski 4y ago

It's possible they had fired them from the coast behind the island, doglegged them around the island (I dunno if the Neptune has this capability, but older AShMs do, so I don't think it's unreasonable), and therefor reduced the possible reaction time of the Moskava as they would have appeared only 40-50 miles away as opposed to 80, according to this map and my rough Google Earth estimates. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/satellite-image-pinpoints-russian-cruiser-moskva-as-she-burned/#prettyPhoto https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/satellite-image... Doing some really rough napkin math gives you 3-6 minutes of warning, assuming the missiles were detected the moment they cleared the island. The island wouldn't have generated "noise" (doesn't work like that) but as a shadow, sure. I don't know that I would say that was the winning factor however. But now that I think about it, given how tiny (some consider it a rock, not an island) Snake Island is, you'd have to be darn precise to get your launchers on a spot on the coast to perfectly place the island between them and the ship, and I can't see those constraints being practical to make an attack in a timely fashion. So I suspect it's a stretch at best. (On the other hand and slightly unrelated, in the flight sim DCS World, we'd take AJS-37 Viggens with RB-15 AShMs and dogleg missiles around features against ships on the Persian Gulf map. This sorta angling becomes a lot easier if your launch platform is far more mobile like an aircraft. Depending on where your target is, you can set up some good ambushes with very little warning if you get your timing right. It's part of the reason the littoral areas can be so darn scary to fight in.)

_0w8t 4y ago
There are some military installations on the island that can reflect the radar signal and that are placed on top of the island, close to 40 meters above the see.