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Forget about the exploit itself. Why are people trusting two young nobodies (Day and Kellar of Indexed Finance) with so much money in the first place? Ok, so Da

Forget about the exploit itself. Why are people trusting two young nobodies (Day and Kellar of Indexed Finance) with so much money in the first place? Ok, so Day has some decent academic credentials, but he's just one person. Who was doing risk analysis? Which independent experts analyzed their algorithms? Which accounting firm audited them? Where's the oversight? These two guys whipped something up, threw it out in the wild, and the masses fed tens or hundreds of millions of dollars into it without a care in the world. This is how crypto operates. Buyer beware.

pohl 4y ago
Haven't people who are attracted to crypto, for the most part, already decided that oversight is bad because something something decentralization?
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  It’s the Libertarian fantasy. Crypto bros, many VCs, angels, and other mini napoleons think they can solve the world’s problems without addressing any of their personal problems, studying history, taking responsibility for their actions, engaging in community building, or hiring people with spines. Which is why crypto and ilk keep reinventing every scam and repeating the mistakes of the past that directly led to regulation.
  - fron 4y ago
    "Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand." No idea who said this originally but it continues to be true. Abandon the system, and they find it was there for a reason.
xur17 4y ago
Because people want to and decided the risk was worth it to them? If a consenting adult wants to deposit their money into a system that they have full visibility into, why should we stop them? > This is how crypto operates. Buyer beware. This statement rings very true for me, and perhaps is the bit we agree on. With crypto there is no "oversight" that blocks you from depositing your funds into unsafe contracts, etc. It's up to you as the user to do your own research before depositing funds. There are many projects within crypto that ARE well built, and have been carefully tested, analyzed, slowly released to the public, etc. I like having the ability to make this choice myself instead of relying on some gatekeeper to decide what I can do with my money (cough "accredited investor rules").
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > If a consenting adult wants to deposit their money into a system that they have full visibility into, why should we stop them? We already do exactly that, e.g. Accredited Investor.
  - why_only_15 4y ago
    Yes but should we do it? Those rules prevent most people from e.g. investing into startups.
    - thethimble 4y ago
      To state it directly, the vast majority of the population doesn’t have the capability of assessing risk in speculative investments and is disproportionately susceptible to fraud. You give the example of “investing in startups” without also describing that most startups fail.
      - dropnerd 4y ago
        i understand why we might want to dissuade speculative investments, byt why is it the state's role to prevent citizens from speculating?
        thethimble 4y ago
        It’s not a perfect analogy but it’s the same reason we have laws that require seatbelts. In theory this impinges on the liberty of adults, but in practice the it obviously saves lives. When people commit harm to themselves out of ignorance, I think it’s reasonable for a government to step in. Note that I think it’s reasonable to fundamentally disagree from a libertarian standpoint but I don’t see many reasonable people arguing against seatbelt laws.
        dropnerd 4y ago
        even from a utilitarian stance, the tradeoff for making the system "safer" is that investors miss opportunities that they see but can't take. something is wrong when you can only buy virgin galactic, not spacex, because of burdensome regulations. the gap between the haves and have nots widen as you must be an accredited investor to buy the biggest winners this decade. something is wrong when you can buy penny stocks, but experimental defi products exclude the us market because of regulatory concerns. the latter is much more transparent than the former.
im3w1l 4y ago
> two young nobodies It's this very attitude, that omly the annointed elite should be allowed to do anything, that draw people to crypto. Now personally I would avoid this scheme like the plague for other reasons. Smart contracts are hard to get right, and especially the ones that rely on very complicated game theorethical considerations for correct operation. And further an index fund of tokens whether manually or automatically managed sounds like a bad idea since I don't believe in the underlying tokens.

pohl 4y ago

Haven't people who are attracted to crypto, for the most part, already decided that oversight is bad because something something decentralization?

Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
It’s the Libertarian fantasy. Crypto bros, many VCs, angels, and other mini napoleons think they can solve the world’s problems without addressing any of their personal problems, studying history, taking responsibility for their actions, engaging in community building, or hiring people with spines. Which is why crypto and ilk keep reinventing every scam and repeating the mistakes of the past that directly led to regulation.
- fron 4y ago
  "Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand." No idea who said this originally but it continues to be true. Abandon the system, and they find it was there for a reason.

xur17 4y ago

Because people want to and decided the risk was worth it to them? If a consenting adult wants to deposit their money into a system that they have full visibility into, why should we stop them? > This is how crypto operates. Buyer beware. This statement rings very true for me, and perhaps is the bit we agree on. With crypto there is no "oversight" that blocks you from depositing your funds into unsafe contracts, etc. It's up to you as the user to do your own research before depositing funds. There are many projects within crypto that ARE well built, and have been carefully tested, analyzed, slowly released to the public, etc. I like having the ability to make this choice myself instead of relying on some gatekeeper to decide what I can do with my money (cough "accredited investor rules").

rootusrootus 4y ago
> If a consenting adult wants to deposit their money into a system that they have full visibility into, why should we stop them? We already do exactly that, e.g. Accredited Investor.
- why_only_15 4y ago
  Yes but should we do it? Those rules prevent most people from e.g. investing into startups.
  - thethimble 4y ago
    To state it directly, the vast majority of the population doesn’t have the capability of assessing risk in speculative investments and is disproportionately susceptible to fraud. You give the example of “investing in startups” without also describing that most startups fail.
    - dropnerd 4y ago
      i understand why we might want to dissuade speculative investments, byt why is it the state's role to prevent citizens from speculating?
      - thethimble 4y ago
        It’s not a perfect analogy but it’s the same reason we have laws that require seatbelts. In theory this impinges on the liberty of adults, but in practice the it obviously saves lives. When people commit harm to themselves out of ignorance, I think it’s reasonable for a government to step in. Note that I think it’s reasonable to fundamentally disagree from a libertarian standpoint but I don’t see many reasonable people arguing against seatbelt laws.
        dropnerd 4y ago
        even from a utilitarian stance, the tradeoff for making the system "safer" is that investors miss opportunities that they see but can't take. something is wrong when you can only buy virgin galactic, not spacex, because of burdensome regulations. the gap between the haves and have nots widen as you must be an accredited investor to buy the biggest winners this decade. something is wrong when you can buy penny stocks, but experimental defi products exclude the us market because of regulatory concerns. the latter is much more transparent than the former.

im3w1l 4y ago

> two young nobodies It's this very attitude, that omly the annointed elite should be allowed to do anything, that draw people to crypto. Now personally I would avoid this scheme like the plague for other reasons. Smart contracts are hard to get right, and especially the ones that rely on very complicated game theorethical considerations for correct operation. And further an index fund of tokens whether manually or automatically managed sounds like a bad idea since I don't believe in the underlying tokens.