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> “Humans are no longer seen as at the pinnacle of creation,” Catherine Wilson, a philosophy fellow at the Institute for Advanced Study in Berlin, told me. “The

> “Humans are no longer seen as at the pinnacle of creation,” Catherine Wilson, a philosophy fellow at the Institute for Advanced Study in Berlin, told me. “There’s a greater modesty and awareness in which we are just one species — and maybe not even the most important species.” Now there's a loaded, unqualified, and treacherous statement. Especially when the article started off euthanizing "lesser species" for scientific research. EDIT: > Eating crickets... Animal rights... > ... We lose little by elbowing humans out of the center of every decision-making process, instead asking how... There you have it. I hadn't finished the article when I started this comment, but... Now I'm glad I did. People who degrade the value of human life so easily will end up committing atrocities. And I suspect the author will find himself quite shocked when he is "elbowed out" of the decision making process, and relegated to a diet of crickets or subjected to some experiment... Little to lose, indeed.

Sakos 4y ago
I'm still not sure what your issue is exactly. Can everybody here try to actually verbalise their issues with the article instead of assuming that everybody else shares their interpretation and view?
- MarcoZavala 4y ago
- bjt2n3904 4y ago
  I'll try again. With regard to consciousness, humanity is alone and unique on planet earth, and perhaps the entire galaxy. This is so evident that it is pointless to debate. This article haphazardly and sophomorically suggests that maybe we aren't so self important, and explicitly suggests that humanity should be elbowed out of some "decision making". The cows and bugs, however, are not capable of making decisions, and cannot be part of the decision making process. It is logically impossible to "elbow" humans out. I suspect that in reality, humans will elbow other humans out, under the guise of "you (I mean, we) are a lesser species, and we're all in this together, and so this decision that I'm making is really in your (oops, I mean our) best interest." For a deeper understanding of this point, look to "The Abolition of Man" by CS Lewis. I don't care if insect protein becomes an additional source of sustinence. I very much care if someone "decides" that some food is "too harmful" to "sustainability" and that it needs to be "regulated" for the benefit of humanity. I doubt that anyone has the capacity to be able to make such a decision, and will (intentionally or not) create an Animal Farm type scenario.
  - burnished 4y ago
    First, let us be agreed that we do not want to see anyone dehumanized. >> With regard to consciousness, humanity is alone and unique on planet earth, and perhaps the entire galaxy. This is so evident that it is pointless to debate I disagree, I do not think it is evident at all. I do think it is engrained, and I suspect it is a view point that arose from a theological defense rather than a natural observation. No comment on the rest of what you have to say, I don't think any of this points in the direction you are suggesting it does, but I can hardly fault you for being on guard against it.
    - bjt2n3904 4y ago
      I'll try and end here... I am a healthy human not obsessed with Internet debates, I swear! :'D I'm glad you see my guard against this slippery slope, but I'm disheartened that what is patently obvious to me is not to others. But in good faith... What other species has set up such an intricate and varied system of communication? Of laws? Of art, poetry, and music? Of research and insight into the natural world that has propelled us to space? And all of which have been developed across language and culture barriers? Yes, wolves howl together. Dolphins communicate and socialize. Chimpanzees and dogs display complex emotions. But the order of magnitude of complexity is nowhere even close to humanity's consciousness.
      - nobody9999 4y ago
        >What other species has set up such an intricate and varied system of communication? Of laws? Of art, poetry, and music? Of research and insight into the natural world that has propelled us to space? And all of which have been developed across language and culture barriers? I'd posit that such human activities imply sentience and not just consciousness. Certainly sentient beings need to have consciousness, but the converse isn't equivalent. Many life forms have consciousness. Dolphins, cats, most humans, chimps, gorillas and numerous others. What the non-humans don't have (or at least not, in our fumbling investigations, detected) is sentience. That's not the same thing as consciousness.
      - burnished 4y ago
tasty_freeze 4y ago
> People who degrade the value of human life so easily will end up committing atrocities. You have the tenor exactly backwards. Those statements don't demean humans, they question whether we have in our arrogance are not giving other animals the consideration they might deserve.
fleddr 4y ago
You think it degrades human life to seek a deeper understanding of the abilities and experiences of other species? What kind of twisted idea is that? And when we consistently learn that we underestimated them, and researchers suggest to be less self-centered and more empathetic to other life, the only logical response you can produce is that the end of times is near? You're an excellent data point to support the study.

Sakos 4y ago

I'm still not sure what your issue is exactly. Can everybody here try to actually verbalise their issues with the article instead of assuming that everybody else shares their interpretation and view?

MarcoZavala 4y ago
bjt2n3904 4y ago
I'll try again. With regard to consciousness, humanity is alone and unique on planet earth, and perhaps the entire galaxy. This is so evident that it is pointless to debate. This article haphazardly and sophomorically suggests that maybe we aren't so self important, and explicitly suggests that humanity should be elbowed out of some "decision making". The cows and bugs, however, are not capable of making decisions, and cannot be part of the decision making process. It is logically impossible to "elbow" humans out. I suspect that in reality, humans will elbow other humans out, under the guise of "you (I mean, we) are a lesser species, and we're all in this together, and so this decision that I'm making is really in your (oops, I mean our) best interest." For a deeper understanding of this point, look to "The Abolition of Man" by CS Lewis. I don't care if insect protein becomes an additional source of sustinence. I very much care if someone "decides" that some food is "too harmful" to "sustainability" and that it needs to be "regulated" for the benefit of humanity. I doubt that anyone has the capacity to be able to make such a decision, and will (intentionally or not) create an Animal Farm type scenario.
- burnished 4y ago
  First, let us be agreed that we do not want to see anyone dehumanized. >> With regard to consciousness, humanity is alone and unique on planet earth, and perhaps the entire galaxy. This is so evident that it is pointless to debate I disagree, I do not think it is evident at all. I do think it is engrained, and I suspect it is a view point that arose from a theological defense rather than a natural observation. No comment on the rest of what you have to say, I don't think any of this points in the direction you are suggesting it does, but I can hardly fault you for being on guard against it.
  - bjt2n3904 4y ago
    I'll try and end here... I am a healthy human not obsessed with Internet debates, I swear! :'D I'm glad you see my guard against this slippery slope, but I'm disheartened that what is patently obvious to me is not to others. But in good faith... What other species has set up such an intricate and varied system of communication? Of laws? Of art, poetry, and music? Of research and insight into the natural world that has propelled us to space? And all of which have been developed across language and culture barriers? Yes, wolves howl together. Dolphins communicate and socialize. Chimpanzees and dogs display complex emotions. But the order of magnitude of complexity is nowhere even close to humanity's consciousness.
    - nobody9999 4y ago
      >What other species has set up such an intricate and varied system of communication? Of laws? Of art, poetry, and music? Of research and insight into the natural world that has propelled us to space? And all of which have been developed across language and culture barriers? I'd posit that such human activities imply sentience and not just consciousness. Certainly sentient beings need to have consciousness, but the converse isn't equivalent. Many life forms have consciousness. Dolphins, cats, most humans, chimps, gorillas and numerous others. What the non-humans don't have (or at least not, in our fumbling investigations, detected) is sentience. That's not the same thing as consciousness.
    - burnished 4y ago

tasty_freeze 4y ago

> People who degrade the value of human life so easily will end up committing atrocities. You have the tenor exactly backwards. Those statements don't demean humans, they question whether we have in our arrogance are not giving other animals the consideration they might deserve.

fleddr 4y ago

You think it degrades human life to seek a deeper understanding of the abilities and experiences of other species? What kind of twisted idea is that? And when we consistently learn that we underestimated them, and researchers suggest to be less self-centered and more empathetic to other life, the only logical response you can produce is that the end of times is near? You're an excellent data point to support the study.