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How? Magic ? I will buy solar panel for my home now and disconnect from the grid if you are capable provide me with a storage product that makes sense. AFAIK

How? Magic ? I will buy solar panel for my home now and disconnect from the grid if you are capable provide me with a storage product that makes sense. AFAIK there are no batteries that are safe and make economical sense today and I have no clue what you storage thing you allude too that can be built in 1 year (very convenient of you not to mention what exactly it is you think that storage is that will appear this year if there is a demand)

ncmncm 4y ago
The topic is utility-scale storage. For your house, batteries is currently your best alternative. New battery tech is coming online which may turn out to scale down to single home use. Or may not. But even lithium storage gets cheaper every year. The right mix of storage technologies will very widely according to where it serves.
- simion314 4y ago
  >The topic is utility-scale storage. The topic of this thread is storage that you can have built in 1 year, at max 2. Hydro storage takes a lot more time to be built from scratch.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    We don't have enough renewable generating capacity to charge storage from, and won't two years from now, either.
    - simion314 4y ago
      You mean Germany has enough storage now that is unused and would also be enough to cover the case where gas is replaced with solar? Any numbers that show this , including say 1 winter week for residential and industry consumption?
      - ncmncm 4y ago
        What you wrote does not make sense.
        simion314 4y ago
        OK, we can see in winter this storage put to good use then and in spring you can be happy proving me wrong with statistics that show that in fact Germany managed to replae all gas and nuclear production with solar and batteries.
        ncmncm 4y ago
        Solar and wind have been and are being built out. Dropping that to start nukes and wait 10-20 years for any power at all would be strictly worse.
        simion314 4y ago
        Nobody is asking for stopping building solar or wind, why do you think this is what we are discussing? (it is about some complementary energy source that will help when there is no sun and wind for a few days)
        ncmncm 4y ago
        Money is fungible. A dollar spent on a nuke is a dollar not available to spend on building out renewables. Germany wisely chose to build out renewables, in preference to spending those dollars propping up those ramshackle old nukes.
tlb 4y ago
For home use, the Tesla Powerwall is popular. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall https://www.tesla.com/powerwall. It gets expensive if you want to ride out several cloudy days in a row. It's inefficient to have off-grid battery systems for every home. If you can average supply and demand across an entire grid, you need much less storage per person. And you can use storage systems with higher fixed cost but lower cost per kWh, like pumped hydroelectric.
- simion314 4y ago
  A grid would need to be huge, because I will have a ton of sun at the same time as my neighbors and we all have darkness at the same time. Wind can compensate partially but you still need a 100% solution and don't want to give up your country energy security and depend hard on others because if bad weather happens then they will not send you energy and keep it for thir own population.
bayesian_horse 4y ago
It's called the energy market. Some energy consumers and producers are flexible in when they can produce or consume. So there is some elasticity which buffers the transient nature of wind and solar even without any storage even though there is some.

ncmncm 4y ago

The topic is utility-scale storage. For your house, batteries is currently your best alternative. New battery tech is coming online which may turn out to scale down to single home use. Or may not. But even lithium storage gets cheaper every year. The right mix of storage technologies will very widely according to where it serves.

simion314 4y ago
>The topic is utility-scale storage. The topic of this thread is storage that you can have built in 1 year, at max 2. Hydro storage takes a lot more time to be built from scratch.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  We don't have enough renewable generating capacity to charge storage from, and won't two years from now, either.
  - simion314 4y ago
    You mean Germany has enough storage now that is unused and would also be enough to cover the case where gas is replaced with solar? Any numbers that show this , including say 1 winter week for residential and industry consumption?
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      What you wrote does not make sense.
      - simion314 4y ago
        OK, we can see in winter this storage put to good use then and in spring you can be happy proving me wrong with statistics that show that in fact Germany managed to replae all gas and nuclear production with solar and batteries.
        ncmncm 4y ago
        Solar and wind have been and are being built out. Dropping that to start nukes and wait 10-20 years for any power at all would be strictly worse.
        simion314 4y ago
        Nobody is asking for stopping building solar or wind, why do you think this is what we are discussing? (it is about some complementary energy source that will help when there is no sun and wind for a few days)
        ncmncm 4y ago
        Money is fungible. A dollar spent on a nuke is a dollar not available to spend on building out renewables. Germany wisely chose to build out renewables, in preference to spending those dollars propping up those ramshackle old nukes.

tlb 4y ago

For home use, the Tesla Powerwall is popular. https://www.tesla.com/powerwall https://www.tesla.com/powerwall. It gets expensive if you want to ride out several cloudy days in a row. It's inefficient to have off-grid battery systems for every home. If you can average supply and demand across an entire grid, you need much less storage per person. And you can use storage systems with higher fixed cost but lower cost per kWh, like pumped hydroelectric.

simion314 4y ago
A grid would need to be huge, because I will have a ton of sun at the same time as my neighbors and we all have darkness at the same time. Wind can compensate partially but you still need a 100% solution and don't want to give up your country energy security and depend hard on others because if bad weather happens then they will not send you energy and keep it for thir own population.

bayesian_horse 4y ago

It's called the energy market. Some energy consumers and producers are flexible in when they can produce or consume. So there is some elasticity which buffers the transient nature of wind and solar even without any storage even though there is some.