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I was pointing out _one_ simple idea (that everyone has _something_ inconsistent) not a broad brush about everything and everyone is inconsistent.

guerrilla 4y ago
> when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions This is what I showed to be false in my previous comment.
- RobertRoberts 4y ago
  This applies to only the topic of discussion you are having with that person (ie, a singular event in time) therefore it's _one_ idea with inconsistency. I know this is a subtle distinction, but it was my actual point.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    I don't understand what you mean, starting with "this." Can you explain? I'm saying the following is false in all discussions, that's all: > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions
    - RobertRoberts 4y ago
      I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. During the defensive act (usually an expression of anger or less often hurt) the single event turned out almost always to be because one of the people in the discussion held a belief that was found on something unsupportable/ unsubstantiated in the context of the discussion, and the opposing view brought this to light. The defensive person (often times myself) backed their position (action) based on their beliefs, but was confronted with contradictory information. (ie, they could simply not "defend" their position in light of the other information.) Keep in mind, the truth of a situation was often irrelevant as I found my self defensive even I only _thought_ I was being shown to be wrong (ie, my actions didn't support by beliefs at the time, but later proved otherwise), and I found this with other people as well. Again, this is only my immediate surroundings and tests I have run. The reason I know the other side is that in nearly every instance I followed up with the other person to find out what happened, what went wrong for the very purpose of understanding what caused the defensive behavior. Consider running a test... Next time you run into a situation where something goes wrong, someone gets defensive (easiest to analyze yourself, because you have all the evidence available) compare what you/they said/did with what they actually believe about the event. I've frequently worked out great personal issues with people doing this, but sometimes people get more upset and simply do not want to bring something up that is a contradiction for themselves. A simple example of this idea is politics, when someone expresses a belief like "all life is sacred", and then they are asked about person's life they detest, when pressed on the matter, they will get defensive. Their actions (words they express) are incongruous with their beliefs are what caused their reaction. Another example is unprofessional behavior, when someone shouts at another person in a meeting, and you point out their actions, they will often state "I wasn't shouting" immediately, or raise some other similar defense. Challenge anyone with evidence that contradicts them on any belief they hold, and if they can't defend against your proofs, almost everyone gets defensive, as if you are attacking _them_. (some people need to value the belief highly, otherwise they won't even discuss it with you) I have yet to meet a person that I have not seen this behavior in under these circumstances. (I bring up contradictory info a lot as part of my work and personal life) Maybe psychopaths or sociopaths?
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        > I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. Whatever dude :) That's just anecdotal. My counterexamples prove you wrong. What you said was false :P
        RobertRoberts 4y ago
        But I am not saying "you are wrong", I am saying in my experiments this is what I have found.

guerrilla 4y ago

> when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions This is what I showed to be false in my previous comment.

RobertRoberts 4y ago
This applies to only the topic of discussion you are having with that person (ie, a singular event in time) therefore it's _one_ idea with inconsistency. I know this is a subtle distinction, but it was my actual point.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  I don't understand what you mean, starting with "this." Can you explain? I'm saying the following is false in all discussions, that's all: > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions
  - RobertRoberts 4y ago
    I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. During the defensive act (usually an expression of anger or less often hurt) the single event turned out almost always to be because one of the people in the discussion held a belief that was found on something unsupportable/ unsubstantiated in the context of the discussion, and the opposing view brought this to light. The defensive person (often times myself) backed their position (action) based on their beliefs, but was confronted with contradictory information. (ie, they could simply not "defend" their position in light of the other information.) Keep in mind, the truth of a situation was often irrelevant as I found my self defensive even I only _thought_ I was being shown to be wrong (ie, my actions didn't support by beliefs at the time, but later proved otherwise), and I found this with other people as well. Again, this is only my immediate surroundings and tests I have run. The reason I know the other side is that in nearly every instance I followed up with the other person to find out what happened, what went wrong for the very purpose of understanding what caused the defensive behavior. Consider running a test... Next time you run into a situation where something goes wrong, someone gets defensive (easiest to analyze yourself, because you have all the evidence available) compare what you/they said/did with what they actually believe about the event. I've frequently worked out great personal issues with people doing this, but sometimes people get more upset and simply do not want to bring something up that is a contradiction for themselves. A simple example of this idea is politics, when someone expresses a belief like "all life is sacred", and then they are asked about person's life they detest, when pressed on the matter, they will get defensive. Their actions (words they express) are incongruous with their beliefs are what caused their reaction. Another example is unprofessional behavior, when someone shouts at another person in a meeting, and you point out their actions, they will often state "I wasn't shouting" immediately, or raise some other similar defense. Challenge anyone with evidence that contradicts them on any belief they hold, and if they can't defend against your proofs, almost everyone gets defensive, as if you are attacking _them_. (some people need to value the belief highly, otherwise they won't even discuss it with you) I have yet to meet a person that I have not seen this behavior in under these circumstances. (I bring up contradictory info a lot as part of my work and personal life) Maybe psychopaths or sociopaths?
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      > I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. Whatever dude :) That's just anecdotal. My counterexamples prove you wrong. What you said was false :P
      - RobertRoberts 4y ago
        But I am not saying "you are wrong", I am saying in my experiments this is what I have found.