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And she is right. The price of Euro or USD or RMB (or whatever Fiat currency represent their people) can never be 0. This is in stark contrast with crypto that

And she is right. The price of Euro or USD or RMB (or whatever Fiat currency represent their people) can never be 0. This is in stark contrast with crypto that can definitely go to 0 with double precision accuracy.

null0pointer 4y ago
If crypto goes to a tiny fraction of a cent then I will buy all of it. Since I will never sell it for zero then it can never go to zero.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Not quite. Zero for a trading asset is a price below a tick. So if it's trading for 0.005 but the tick size is 0.01, then it rounds to zero. This will likely happen to Luna soon in spite of many folks having actual LUNA tokens.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Who cares about ticks when it’s two people trading with each other? If there is a liquid market I’d imagine they’d readjust the tick size to serve whatever market remains?
- latchkey 4y ago
  If there is no liquidity, then it can go to zero since you can't find anyone to sell it to.
  - whatever1 4y ago
    Thing is that you will always want to buy something from China or EU (unless their people and resources disappear). Example: We imposed strict sanctions to Russia that almost cut any trade with them. Is the Russian currency valued at 0? Of course not. Because Europeans, Indians, Chinese are buying Russian currency to pay for Russian natural gas / oil.
    - latchkey 4y ago
      It is because the US didn't close all the loopholes and because foreign countries have to buy energy in rubles... ie: heavily manipulated currency. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/04/05/1090920442/how-russia-rescued-the-ruble https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/04/05/1090920442/how...
      - whatever1 4y ago
        See? Regardless of the policy their currency cannot go to 0 because it has an intrinsic value backing it. The resources and the people of the Russian Federation.
        latchkey 4y ago
        I get your point, but I see it more like the government can continue to force people to make the currency valuable by requiring payment in rubles. Hence the manipulation. If you got rid of the government, the value of the currency might still go to zero, while the intrinsic value of the resources could still be worth something paid in another currency.
        whatever1 4y ago
        Of course the organization of people under a single entity is what gives them bargaining power. If there was no Russian government and army then you would just go in and take whatever resources you like at the cost of maybe a couple of bullets.
- lupire 4y ago
  If the value is less than transaction costs, it is worth 0.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    Untrue. You can buy 1 shitcoin for less than the transaction cost and it is still "worth" what you paid for it. More accurately, it is "worth" what someone else will pay you for it. Transaction costs are not a factor in the worth of the asset.
scottiebarnes 4y ago
Have you not heard of the countless fiat currencies that hyperinflated out of existence? Just because you haven't lived long enough to see a major empire fall doesn't mean it won't happen eventually.
- whatever1 4y ago
  If China prints 100x RMB tonight will you stop buying their services or products? No. You will keep injecting their economy with whatever valuable asset you have to get your stuff. Inflation is just a symptom not the cause of an economic collapse. If inflation is also something that is everyone's problem then my thesis is that it is nobody's problem.
  - scottiebarnes 4y ago
    You're missing the part where people abandon the RMB as a store of value and Chinese bonds become worth nothing. They become worth nothing because people realize the central bank will inflate away the future value of any RMB, and thus holding RMB or any asset that derives value from future RMB (including stocks in businesses whose revenue or dividends are in RMB) become worth nothing. Good money is supposed to be a good store of value as well. If RMB cannot store value, people will not use it. If people do not use it, it becomes worthless.
    - whatever1 4y ago
      That is the nice thing about government. They can enforce things. So even if you don't want RMB if the government pays you with RMB then you take it. That means that banks, contractors, employees etc all get RMB. Government can also force trade parties to trade with its own currency, like Russia does today.
      - scottiebarnes 4y ago
        Didn't seem to work out for Zimbabwe, Hungary, Venezuela, etc.
yucky 4y ago
I have a $100 TRILLION Zimbabwe note in my wallet that says otherwise.

null0pointer 4y ago

If crypto goes to a tiny fraction of a cent then I will buy all of it. Since I will never sell it for zero then it can never go to zero.

arcticbull 4y ago
Not quite. Zero for a trading asset is a price below a tick. So if it's trading for 0.005 but the tick size is 0.01, then it rounds to zero. This will likely happen to Luna soon in spite of many folks having actual LUNA tokens.
- chrischen 4y ago
  Who cares about ticks when it’s two people trading with each other? If there is a liquid market I’d imagine they’d readjust the tick size to serve whatever market remains?
latchkey 4y ago
If there is no liquidity, then it can go to zero since you can't find anyone to sell it to.
- whatever1 4y ago
  Thing is that you will always want to buy something from China or EU (unless their people and resources disappear). Example: We imposed strict sanctions to Russia that almost cut any trade with them. Is the Russian currency valued at 0? Of course not. Because Europeans, Indians, Chinese are buying Russian currency to pay for Russian natural gas / oil.
  - latchkey 4y ago
    It is because the US didn't close all the loopholes and because foreign countries have to buy energy in rubles... ie: heavily manipulated currency. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/04/05/1090920442/how-russia-rescued-the-ruble https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/04/05/1090920442/how...
    - whatever1 4y ago
      See? Regardless of the policy their currency cannot go to 0 because it has an intrinsic value backing it. The resources and the people of the Russian Federation.
      - latchkey 4y ago
        I get your point, but I see it more like the government can continue to force people to make the currency valuable by requiring payment in rubles. Hence the manipulation. If you got rid of the government, the value of the currency might still go to zero, while the intrinsic value of the resources could still be worth something paid in another currency.
        whatever1 4y ago
        Of course the organization of people under a single entity is what gives them bargaining power. If there was no Russian government and army then you would just go in and take whatever resources you like at the cost of maybe a couple of bullets.
lupire 4y ago
If the value is less than transaction costs, it is worth 0.
- latchkey 4y ago
  Untrue. You can buy 1 shitcoin for less than the transaction cost and it is still "worth" what you paid for it. More accurately, it is "worth" what someone else will pay you for it. Transaction costs are not a factor in the worth of the asset.

scottiebarnes 4y ago

Have you not heard of the countless fiat currencies that hyperinflated out of existence? Just because you haven't lived long enough to see a major empire fall doesn't mean it won't happen eventually.

whatever1 4y ago
If China prints 100x RMB tonight will you stop buying their services or products? No. You will keep injecting their economy with whatever valuable asset you have to get your stuff. Inflation is just a symptom not the cause of an economic collapse. If inflation is also something that is everyone's problem then my thesis is that it is nobody's problem.
- scottiebarnes 4y ago
  You're missing the part where people abandon the RMB as a store of value and Chinese bonds become worth nothing. They become worth nothing because people realize the central bank will inflate away the future value of any RMB, and thus holding RMB or any asset that derives value from future RMB (including stocks in businesses whose revenue or dividends are in RMB) become worth nothing. Good money is supposed to be a good store of value as well. If RMB cannot store value, people will not use it. If people do not use it, it becomes worthless.
  - whatever1 4y ago
    That is the nice thing about government. They can enforce things. So even if you don't want RMB if the government pays you with RMB then you take it. That means that banks, contractors, employees etc all get RMB. Government can also force trade parties to trade with its own currency, like Russia does today.
    - scottiebarnes 4y ago
      Didn't seem to work out for Zimbabwe, Hungary, Venezuela, etc.

yucky 4y ago

I have a $100 TRILLION Zimbabwe note in my wallet that says otherwise.