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> The actual Jewish tradition is against several of those I think that Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, would have something to say[0] about that:

> The actual Jewish tradition is against several of those I think that Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, would have something to say[0] about that: “The law, moreover, enjoins us to bring up all our offspring and forbids women to cause abortion of what is begotten, or to destroy it afterward; and if any woman appears to have so done, she will be a murderer of her child, by destroying a living creature, and diminishing humankind,” (Josephus, Against Apion Book 2, Chapter 25, Section 202). > And Protestants weren’t against abortion until recently, because they defined themselves as against Catholicism. That's like saying that Protestants didn't believe in God until recently, because they defined themselves as against Catholics who are theists. Do you have any example of historic Protestant teaching that approved of abortion? [0] https://carm.org/abortion/abortion-and-the-early-church/ https://carm.org/abortion/abortion-and-the-early-church/

astrange 4y ago
> I think that Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, would have something to say[0] about that I mean, he’s not a rabbi or anything. It was considered somewhat less bad than murder, or possibly is only bad when Romans do it. https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/19861990/feldman_abortion.pdf https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/publi... > That's like saying that Protestants didn't believe in God until recently, because they defined themselves as against Catholics who are theists. Surely the Protestants’ idea was they’re the ones who believe in God and Catholics are idolators who worship saints? > Do you have any example of historic Protestant teaching that approved of abortion? They switched to being against it in the 70s, so is 68 historic? https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/30/my-take-when-evangelicals-were-pro-choice/ https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/30/my-take-when-evang... (page is somewhat broken)
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > I mean, he’s not a rabbi or anything. “On the authority of Rabbi Ishmael, it was said: [A murderer is executed] even for the murder of an embryo. What is Rabbi Ishmael’s reason? Because it is written, ‘Whosoever sheddeth the blood of man within a man, his blood shall be shed.’ What is a man within a man? An embryo in his mother’s womb,” (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 57b). > is 68 historic? I wasn't aware of Waltke's position, which is cited by that CNN article, but I don't think it represents the consensus of Christian scholars at the time, and in any case, he later (in 1976) reversed his position, concluding: "The fetus is human and therefore to be accorded the same protection to life granted every other human being."
rat87 4y ago
While some more traditional Jews dislike legal abortion for cases that don't relate to health/mental health and are after 40 days Jewish law is pretty clear that a fetus is not alive/a person with rights until it born and that abortion is not murder.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > Jewish law is pretty clear that ... abortion is not murder. I don't know if you're a rabbi, but these rabbis disagree with you: https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-women-express-anger-after-orthodox-rabbis-compare-abortion-to-murder/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-women-express-anger-aft...

astrange 4y ago

> I think that Josephus, the first-century Jewish historian, would have something to say[0] about that I mean, he’s not a rabbi or anything. It was considered somewhat less bad than murder, or possibly is only bad when Romans do it. https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/public/halakhah/teshuvot/19861990/feldman_abortion.pdf https://www.rabbinicalassembly.org/sites/default/files/publi... > That's like saying that Protestants didn't believe in God until recently, because they defined themselves as against Catholics who are theists. Surely the Protestants’ idea was they’re the ones who believe in God and Catholics are idolators who worship saints? > Do you have any example of historic Protestant teaching that approved of abortion? They switched to being against it in the 70s, so is 68 historic? https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/30/my-take-when-evangelicals-were-pro-choice/ https://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/30/my-take-when-evang... (page is somewhat broken)

dane-pgp 4y ago
> I mean, he’s not a rabbi or anything. “On the authority of Rabbi Ishmael, it was said: [A murderer is executed] even for the murder of an embryo. What is Rabbi Ishmael’s reason? Because it is written, ‘Whosoever sheddeth the blood of man within a man, his blood shall be shed.’ What is a man within a man? An embryo in his mother’s womb,” (Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 57b). > is 68 historic? I wasn't aware of Waltke's position, which is cited by that CNN article, but I don't think it represents the consensus of Christian scholars at the time, and in any case, he later (in 1976) reversed his position, concluding: "The fetus is human and therefore to be accorded the same protection to life granted every other human being."

rat87 4y ago

While some more traditional Jews dislike legal abortion for cases that don't relate to health/mental health and are after 40 days Jewish law is pretty clear that a fetus is not alive/a person with rights until it born and that abortion is not murder.

dane-pgp 4y ago
> Jewish law is pretty clear that ... abortion is not murder. I don't know if you're a rabbi, but these rabbis disagree with you: https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-women-express-anger-after-orthodox-rabbis-compare-abortion-to-murder/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-women-express-anger-aft...