5 ms·

To add to this, _everyone_ has some kind of inconsistent belief system. It's fairly simple to determine this, when people get defensive it's almost certainly ba

To add to this, _everyone_ has some kind of inconsistent belief system. It's fairly simple to determine this, when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions, or possibly broaches a belief they hold to be true, but are unable to demonstrate why it's true. Therefore causing defensive behavior when challenged. I.E., very few people get upset if you say "the sky is not blue", as this is non-threatening to their beliefs and they can verify the truth themselves. But state "your political position X is based on this specific false premise of Y", if someone holds this position strongly but cannot justify it will often trigger an emotional and often irrational defense.

guerrilla 4y ago
> To add to this, _everyone_ has some kind of inconsistent belief system. It's fairly simple to determine this, when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions, or possibly broaches a belief they hold to be true, but are unable to demonstrate why it's true. Therefore causing defensive behavior when challenged. This is silly folk psychology. There are many reasons people get upset when people contradict them, raging from respect issues to believing that such contradictions are actual mortal dangers. People get quite upset when you disagree with their belief that all people have a right to life and counter with the proposition that the group they belong to should be exterminated, for example. It has nothing to do with their alleged inability to debate you. It's that you've indicate you're a threat to their life. People get quite upset when you strawman them or condescend or patronize in your response. There's a whole rainbow of reasons to get upset and very few of them are about some inability to debate you.
- RobertRoberts 4y ago
  I was pointing out _one_ simple idea (that everyone has _something_ inconsistent) not a broad brush about everything and everyone is inconsistent.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions This is what I showed to be false in my previous comment.
    - RobertRoberts 4y ago
      This applies to only the topic of discussion you are having with that person (ie, a singular event in time) therefore it's _one_ idea with inconsistency. I know this is a subtle distinction, but it was my actual point.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        I don't understand what you mean, starting with "this." Can you explain? I'm saying the following is false in all discussions, that's all: > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions
        RobertRoberts 4y ago
        I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. During the defensive act (usually an expression of anger or less often hurt) the single event turned out almost always to be because one of the people in the discussion held a belief that was found on something unsupportable/ unsubstantiated in the context of the discussion, and the opposing view brought this to light. The defensive person (often times myself) backed their position (action) based on their beliefs, but was confronted with contradictory information. (ie, they could simply not "defend" their position in light of the other information.) Keep in mind, the truth of a situation was often irrelevant as I found my self defensive even I only _thought_ I was being shown to be wrong (ie, my actions didn't support by beliefs at the time, but later proved otherwise), and I found this with other people as well. Again, this is only my immediate surroundings and tests I have run. The reason I know the other side is that in nearly every instance I followed up with the other person to find out what happened, what went wrong for the very purpose of understanding what caused the defensive behavior. Consider running a test... Next time you run into a situation where something goes wrong, someone gets defensive (easiest to analyze yourself, because you have all the evidence available) compare what you/they said/did with what they actually believe about the event. I've frequently worked out great personal issues with people doing this, but sometimes people get more upset and simply do not want to bring something up that is a contradiction for themselves. A simple example of this idea is politics, when someone expresses a belief like "all life is sacred", and then they are asked about person's life they detest, when pressed on the matter, they will get defensive. Their actions (words they express) are incongruous with their beliefs are what caused their reaction. Another example is unprofessional behavior, when someone shouts at another person in a meeting, and you point out their actions, they will often state "I wasn't shouting" immediately, or raise some other similar defense. Challenge anyone with evidence that contradicts them on any belief they hold, and if they can't defend against your proofs, almost everyone gets defensive, as if you are attacking _them_. (some people need to value the belief highly, otherwise they won't even discuss it with you) I have yet to meet a person that I have not seen this behavior in under these circumstances. (I bring up contradictory info a lot as part of my work and personal life) Maybe psychopaths or sociopaths?
dotnet00 4y ago
In my experience, the reason people get mad when questioned like that isn't because they're unable to justify it. It's usually because you're insensitively pestering them to describe their opinions in careful detail when that's not a conversation they're interested in having at that time. Kind of like how when someone's complaining to you about a problem and they get angry when you keep pestering them with solutions, because they aren't looking for a solution and just want someone to vent to.

guerrilla 4y ago

> To add to this, _everyone_ has some kind of inconsistent belief system. It's fairly simple to determine this, when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions, or possibly broaches a belief they hold to be true, but are unable to demonstrate why it's true. Therefore causing defensive behavior when challenged. This is silly folk psychology. There are many reasons people get upset when people contradict them, raging from respect issues to believing that such contradictions are actual mortal dangers. People get quite upset when you disagree with their belief that all people have a right to life and counter with the proposition that the group they belong to should be exterminated, for example. It has nothing to do with their alleged inability to debate you. It's that you've indicate you're a threat to their life. People get quite upset when you strawman them or condescend or patronize in your response. There's a whole rainbow of reasons to get upset and very few of them are about some inability to debate you.

RobertRoberts 4y ago
I was pointing out _one_ simple idea (that everyone has _something_ inconsistent) not a broad brush about everything and everyone is inconsistent.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions This is what I showed to be false in my previous comment.
  - RobertRoberts 4y ago
    This applies to only the topic of discussion you are having with that person (ie, a singular event in time) therefore it's _one_ idea with inconsistency. I know this is a subtle distinction, but it was my actual point.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      I don't understand what you mean, starting with "this." Can you explain? I'm saying the following is false in all discussions, that's all: > when people get defensive it's almost certainly based on something incongruous between their beliefs and actions
      - RobertRoberts 4y ago
        I have done tests the past few years where I analyzed what went wrong where some form of disagreement has occurred, either personally or professional. Either I was defensive or the other person was. During the defensive act (usually an expression of anger or less often hurt) the single event turned out almost always to be because one of the people in the discussion held a belief that was found on something unsupportable/ unsubstantiated in the context of the discussion, and the opposing view brought this to light. The defensive person (often times myself) backed their position (action) based on their beliefs, but was confronted with contradictory information. (ie, they could simply not "defend" their position in light of the other information.) Keep in mind, the truth of a situation was often irrelevant as I found my self defensive even I only _thought_ I was being shown to be wrong (ie, my actions didn't support by beliefs at the time, but later proved otherwise), and I found this with other people as well. Again, this is only my immediate surroundings and tests I have run. The reason I know the other side is that in nearly every instance I followed up with the other person to find out what happened, what went wrong for the very purpose of understanding what caused the defensive behavior. Consider running a test... Next time you run into a situation where something goes wrong, someone gets defensive (easiest to analyze yourself, because you have all the evidence available) compare what you/they said/did with what they actually believe about the event. I've frequently worked out great personal issues with people doing this, but sometimes people get more upset and simply do not want to bring something up that is a contradiction for themselves. A simple example of this idea is politics, when someone expresses a belief like "all life is sacred", and then they are asked about person's life they detest, when pressed on the matter, they will get defensive. Their actions (words they express) are incongruous with their beliefs are what caused their reaction. Another example is unprofessional behavior, when someone shouts at another person in a meeting, and you point out their actions, they will often state "I wasn't shouting" immediately, or raise some other similar defense. Challenge anyone with evidence that contradicts them on any belief they hold, and if they can't defend against your proofs, almost everyone gets defensive, as if you are attacking _them_. (some people need to value the belief highly, otherwise they won't even discuss it with you) I have yet to meet a person that I have not seen this behavior in under these circumstances. (I bring up contradictory info a lot as part of my work and personal life) Maybe psychopaths or sociopaths?

dotnet00 4y ago

In my experience, the reason people get mad when questioned like that isn't because they're unable to justify it. It's usually because you're insensitively pestering them to describe their opinions in careful detail when that's not a conversation they're interested in having at that time. Kind of like how when someone's complaining to you about a problem and they get angry when you keep pestering them with solutions, because they aren't looking for a solution and just want someone to vent to.