2 ms·

A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge.

A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. There was an article in the LAT last week on this point. It turns out, most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. It's so bad that a rehab diversion program had fewer than 1% of eligible users take advantage of it last year. It's why so many of them are homeless in the first place: by choice. Because being housed means giving up drugs, or alcohol, or having to take medications. And most of them don't want to do that. A minority of homeless are involuntarily and temporarily unhoused and would benefit from a bed, shower, and clothes. Unfortunately, we waste most of our money trying to house the voluntary homeless/drug addicts instead of the ones who actually need it.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. Watch these videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos As someone who has known many homeless people, the majority neither want to use drugs nor be homeless. I do not know many people who choose to be addicts. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. I also meet so many women whose decent into homelessness was caused by sexual abuse. And go to a shelter for a night and tell me if you would choose that over a bottle of vodka... Maggots, sexual abuse, filthy bathrooms: Orange County homeless shelters’ grim conditions detailed in ACLU report https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-abuse-unsanitary-conditions-common-at-orange-county-homeless-shelters/ https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-ab...
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Former public defender, all of my clients were homeless individuals. Also live within walking distance of Skid Row. I can say from personal experience that the majority of the homeless I meet are (a) on drugs and (b) choose to stay homeless over utilizing shelter space (because almost all shelters in LA are sober). LAT literally just had an article about this confirming this. The vast majority of the visible homeless in LA are homeless by choice. And we have thousands of empty shelter beds every night because of this. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. Opiods were not the root cause of drug addition for most of the LA's homeless drug addicts, so blaming the pharmaceutical companies is silly of you. Opiods only recently overtook other drugs on LA's drug scene. Try giving a homeless person food in LA when they ask for money for food. 99% of the time they'll just throw it back at you, because they really want the money to buy alcohol or drugs. And I say that from experience.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Is being in a shelter equivalent to being housed? Are they allowed to stay on the shelter 24x7? Do you think the same people would refuse a studio apartment? And as a public defender I wouldn’t doubt that most of the people you interacted with had a substance use disorder. Why would you meet the homeless who didn’t have any issues with addiction and didn’t need to steal to get their drug of choice? As a public defender I think your sample is biased.
  - edmcnulty101 4y ago
    Clearly you're seeing the worst case scenario as a public defender. You're seeing the literal criminals. Unless you also volunteer to help the homeless on weekends.
    - gamblor956 4y ago
      I did for a few years until I realized the futility of trying to convince drug addicts that not being on drugs was good for them. Unfortunately, the reality is that most drug addicts prefer to be high, and the more they use, the stronger that preference. Worse, an aspect of many mental illnesses (especially the schizoid series) is paranoia regarding medication, so while ill most of the mentally ill will refuse their medications, though they may otherwise want to take their meds when not ill. (This is why stable housing is so important for the mentally ill: missing even a single dose can cause the illness to relapse, leading the individual to actively avoid medication.)
giraffe_lady 4y ago
What got me out of homelessness was someone giving me a chunk of money and a place to sleep without judgement. I could afford beer instead of hard liquor and wasn't getting constantly arrested for drinking it. I got a computer and a part time job on it that eventually led to me learning to code. It was another five or six years before I seriously tried to quit drinking for real, but from that point I was on my way out in a way I never had been before. It's technically correct to describe me at that time as "prefer having access to drugs over shelter" but it doesn't tell the full story of my situation or motivations. This society and these laws had taken everything else from me, and now expected me to also give up the drink? With no support and nothing else, nothing at all to replace it? Nah I'll take my chances. I needed a lot of other help that we have decided people are not entitled to, that we aren't obligated to give. But it's us that decided that, not them. If people aren't able to accept the very limited help we're willing to give on the extremely harsh terms we're willing to give it, that's our fault not theirs.
edmcnulty101 4y ago
there's a small amount of exploitation from every government service in existence. just like there's theft from department stores. department stores just bake that into the cost of doing business. which is what government support systems should also do.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

> most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. Watch these videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos As someone who has known many homeless people, the majority neither want to use drugs nor be homeless. I do not know many people who choose to be addicts. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. I also meet so many women whose decent into homelessness was caused by sexual abuse. And go to a shelter for a night and tell me if you would choose that over a bottle of vodka... Maggots, sexual abuse, filthy bathrooms: Orange County homeless shelters’ grim conditions detailed in ACLU report https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-abuse-unsanitary-conditions-common-at-orange-county-homeless-shelters/ https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-ab...

gamblor956 4y ago
Former public defender, all of my clients were homeless individuals. Also live within walking distance of Skid Row. I can say from personal experience that the majority of the homeless I meet are (a) on drugs and (b) choose to stay homeless over utilizing shelter space (because almost all shelters in LA are sober). LAT literally just had an article about this confirming this. The vast majority of the visible homeless in LA are homeless by choice. And we have thousands of empty shelter beds every night because of this. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. Opiods were not the root cause of drug addition for most of the LA's homeless drug addicts, so blaming the pharmaceutical companies is silly of you. Opiods only recently overtook other drugs on LA's drug scene. Try giving a homeless person food in LA when they ask for money for food. 99% of the time they'll just throw it back at you, because they really want the money to buy alcohol or drugs. And I say that from experience.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Is being in a shelter equivalent to being housed? Are they allowed to stay on the shelter 24x7? Do you think the same people would refuse a studio apartment? And as a public defender I wouldn’t doubt that most of the people you interacted with had a substance use disorder. Why would you meet the homeless who didn’t have any issues with addiction and didn’t need to steal to get their drug of choice? As a public defender I think your sample is biased.
- edmcnulty101 4y ago
  Clearly you're seeing the worst case scenario as a public defender. You're seeing the literal criminals. Unless you also volunteer to help the homeless on weekends.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    I did for a few years until I realized the futility of trying to convince drug addicts that not being on drugs was good for them. Unfortunately, the reality is that most drug addicts prefer to be high, and the more they use, the stronger that preference. Worse, an aspect of many mental illnesses (especially the schizoid series) is paranoia regarding medication, so while ill most of the mentally ill will refuse their medications, though they may otherwise want to take their meds when not ill. (This is why stable housing is so important for the mentally ill: missing even a single dose can cause the illness to relapse, leading the individual to actively avoid medication.)

giraffe_lady 4y ago

What got me out of homelessness was someone giving me a chunk of money and a place to sleep without judgement. I could afford beer instead of hard liquor and wasn't getting constantly arrested for drinking it. I got a computer and a part time job on it that eventually led to me learning to code. It was another five or six years before I seriously tried to quit drinking for real, but from that point I was on my way out in a way I never had been before. It's technically correct to describe me at that time as "prefer having access to drugs over shelter" but it doesn't tell the full story of my situation or motivations. This society and these laws had taken everything else from me, and now expected me to also give up the drink? With no support and nothing else, nothing at all to replace it? Nah I'll take my chances. I needed a lot of other help that we have decided people are not entitled to, that we aren't obligated to give. But it's us that decided that, not them. If people aren't able to accept the very limited help we're willing to give on the extremely harsh terms we're willing to give it, that's our fault not theirs.

edmcnulty101 4y ago

there's a small amount of exploitation from every government service in existence. just like there's theft from department stores. department stores just bake that into the cost of doing business. which is what government support systems should also do.