3 ms·

In the US we have a thesis proposal as well. However something I've learned is that no five-page document, no matter how well considered, can ever determine the

In the US we have a thesis proposal as well. However something I've learned is that no five-page document, no matter how well considered, can ever determine the optimal strategy for how to spend a 4-5 year slice of your research life. The whole point of research is to learn new things: new things sometimes imply changing direction.

chrisseaton 4y ago
In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder. Right - which is why it's a better check before they embark on a PhD.
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      I am biased but I think the US approach is much better. You start the MS and PhD at the same time. You get real research experience during the first two years, while also doing coursework: if things don't work out, you have an off-ramp in getting a terminal MS (usually for no financial cost.) If you keep going, then ideally you have a good sense of what research you want to do. You may have one or more publications/near-publications under your belt. Now you write your proposal and finish out the dissertation over the course of 2-3 years, which is realistic. I may be missing something about the UK approach but this seems much more reasonable to me.
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      I disagree. It’s a final check to ensure that you will defend successfully. It is much easier to reject a proposal a year before the defense than to reject a defense.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    In Spain we do the latter in theory. In practice, in almost all cases I know it's the supervisor who writes the proposal because there's no way a fresh PhD student has the experience or knowledge of the field to write one. And anyway, the proposal often gets overwritten a few years down the line after Plan A fails and the thesis is pivoted towards Plan B.

chrisseaton 4y ago

In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder. Right - which is why it's a better check before they embark on a PhD.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    I am biased but I think the US approach is much better. You start the MS and PhD at the same time. You get real research experience during the first two years, while also doing coursework: if things don't work out, you have an off-ramp in getting a terminal MS (usually for no financial cost.) If you keep going, then ideally you have a good sense of what research you want to do. You may have one or more publications/near-publications under your belt. Now you write your proposal and finish out the dissertation over the course of 2-3 years, which is realistic. I may be missing something about the UK approach but this seems much more reasonable to me.
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    I disagree. It’s a final check to ensure that you will defend successfully. It is much easier to reject a proposal a year before the defense than to reject a defense.
- Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
  In Spain we do the latter in theory. In practice, in almost all cases I know it's the supervisor who writes the proposal because there's no way a fresh PhD student has the experience or knowledge of the field to write one. And anyway, the proposal often gets overwritten a few years down the line after Plan A fails and the thesis is pivoted towards Plan B.