3 ms·

I don't know how they do it in the US, but something I like about the British way of doing PhDs (at least University of York) is that they require you to write

I don't know how they do it in the US, but something I like about the British way of doing PhDs (at least University of York) is that they require you to write a 5-6 page proposal for your project. The proposal needs to be at least a little well-researched, with citations and needs to show a minimal level of competence in the subject that you want to study. I think this is a good idea because it really forces you to consider if you actually enjoy the subject. You work alongside the professors to tailor the proposal, and you'll find out pretty quickly if you hate the subject or not, and if you decide you do hate the subject, at least you didn't waste multiple years (and potentially thousands of pounds) trying to pursue it.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
In the US we have a thesis proposal as well. However something I've learned is that no five-page document, no matter how well considered, can ever determine the optimal strategy for how to spend a 4-5 year slice of your research life. The whole point of research is to learn new things: new things sometimes imply changing direction.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder. Right - which is why it's a better check before they embark on a PhD.
      - matthewdgreen 4y ago
        I am biased but I think the US approach is much better. You start the MS and PhD at the same time. You get real research experience during the first two years, while also doing coursework: if things don't work out, you have an off-ramp in getting a terminal MS (usually for no financial cost.) If you keep going, then ideally you have a good sense of what research you want to do. You may have one or more publications/near-publications under your belt. Now you write your proposal and finish out the dissertation over the course of 2-3 years, which is realistic. I may be missing something about the UK approach but this seems much more reasonable to me.
      - dr_dshiv 4y ago
        I disagree. It’s a final check to ensure that you will defend successfully. It is much easier to reject a proposal a year before the defense than to reject a defense.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
      In Spain we do the latter in theory. In practice, in almost all cases I know it's the supervisor who writes the proposal because there's no way a fresh PhD student has the experience or knowledge of the field to write one. And anyway, the proposal often gets overwritten a few years down the line after Plan A fails and the thesis is pivoted towards Plan B.

matthewdgreen 4y ago

In the US we have a thesis proposal as well. However something I've learned is that no five-page document, no matter how well considered, can ever determine the optimal strategy for how to spend a 4-5 year slice of your research life. The whole point of research is to learn new things: new things sometimes imply changing direction.

chrisseaton 4y ago
In the US doesn’t the thesis proposal come after you’ve already sunk several years? In the UK you do it as part of your application.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  Holding someone to a (US-style) thesis proposal is hard enough when they're already familiar with the area and have a couple of years of direct research experience under their belt. Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > Doing it even earlier in the process sounds much harder. Right - which is why it's a better check before they embark on a PhD.
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      I am biased but I think the US approach is much better. You start the MS and PhD at the same time. You get real research experience during the first two years, while also doing coursework: if things don't work out, you have an off-ramp in getting a terminal MS (usually for no financial cost.) If you keep going, then ideally you have a good sense of what research you want to do. You may have one or more publications/near-publications under your belt. Now you write your proposal and finish out the dissertation over the course of 2-3 years, which is realistic. I may be missing something about the UK approach but this seems much more reasonable to me.
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      I disagree. It’s a final check to ensure that you will defend successfully. It is much easier to reject a proposal a year before the defense than to reject a defense.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
    In Spain we do the latter in theory. In practice, in almost all cases I know it's the supervisor who writes the proposal because there's no way a fresh PhD student has the experience or knowledge of the field to write one. And anyway, the proposal often gets overwritten a few years down the line after Plan A fails and the thesis is pivoted towards Plan B.