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So, in your closing example Tennessee would be a “gated palace”? I don’t buy it and I sympathize with the people that are saying “enough”. Enough human shit on

So, in your closing example Tennessee would be a “gated palace”? I don’t buy it and I sympathize with the people that are saying “enough”. Enough human shit on the sidewalks, enough destruction of our shared public spaces, enough not being able to go into certain areas after dark, enough open hard drug use, enough car break ins and armed robbery. The people in these makeshift homeless camps are not homogenous in their background, needs, etc. But I think one thing we can all agree on is that these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people that decrease the quality of life for everyone. Many of them not mentally ill, just opportunistic criminals. If some other states (or you) want to support and foster this, I say fine. Let these people go there. The differences in our states and free movement is part of what makes the US great. But don’t tell others what they have to tolerate where they live.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people We are treated as less than human. Why would we not be anti-social? American society is anti-social. Imagine if someone told you you could not use the bathroom in your house, where would you shit? We have nothing and have to steal to survive, we have crippling stress so we take drugs to escape because we cannot get the psychedelics that are cool drugs? You think we just appear out of the ether, that there is no greater social issue happening. I would love to be able to compartmentalize as you do, it might help me sleep at night. I invite you all to watch some of our stories son this YouTube channel Invisible People. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos
- bequanna 4y ago
  > We have nothing and have to steal to survive Well, if I am picking on you specifically (apologies) it seems that you have: abundant time, access to the internet, a solid command of the english language, and if you're in the US access to a myriad of social and mental health services that would easily raise your standard of living to Lower Middle class if you took advantage. Not to mention the endless non-profit groups that offer safe shelter options, free food, etc. Speaking on behalf of society: We don't like seeing you struggle or in pain, but what else do you want from us?
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    I say "we" because I do not separate myself form others, no matter the circumstance. I am one of the lucky homeless. I was a network engineer making bank at Cisco before I became ill so my disability payments are higher than average. Do you know the cure for Neuropsychiatric Lupus? You think I am just not trying hard enough? You think people right now I can write a sentence and use a laptop that later I am not crippled with anxiety or pain and my white blood cells vanish? You know how many employers fired me because I called in sick just one day even though they knew I was disabled? You know how many apartments I could not rent, not because I did not have the money but because I was on disability? (I sued a landlord over this and won actually.) And services? They have been cutting services ever since I was first disabled. Endless non-profit groups that do nothing? In my home town there were five non-profits to house the homeless. I went to all five, still homeless. "Safe shelter"? Spend a night in a shelter anywhere and tell me how safe you feel. You think you know my story like you know every other homeless persons story. It is all so simple for you, isn't it, when you make up a fantasy in your head? I hope you do not get long covid or some other known disorder they have no idea how to treat. Unlike you, when I speak, I speak for the people who need more than I do. I am grateful for the help I do have, but it is a purgatory of torture and suffering. I was getting better until COVID turned my housing struggle into homelessness and all that happened was this with houses got more houses.
    - bequanna 4y ago
      I feel for you, I really do. It sounds like you're struggling and that is awful to hear. But I did ask the question above in good faith: What more could be done? For example, Exactly what is standing in the way between you and having a Section 8 apartment (or whatever)? Is there something specific that needs to change?
      - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
        > Is there something specific that needs to change? Stop people from using housing as an investment. Stop voting for either corporate party. Fight to pass laws banning the ownership of multiple houses. Fight for social housing like they have in Europe. Represent us in your town halls to fight agains the anti-homeless/poverty laws and fight for more funding for section 8 and low income housing. Do not vote for people who magically find $40 billion for Ukraine but cannot find money for homeless/healthcare. Make politicians earn your vote instead of just voting for the least bad person. End all the deductions for owning a house. End AirBnB in any community that cannot afford to house their poorest. Frankly, the FED might help me more than anyone else once they raise rates and housing prices collapse. And people think Section 8 is some magic thing, but section 8 is only half of it. If a landlord will not accept it a voucher is useless: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/05/12/biden-wants-to-offer-more-housing-vouchers-many-landlords-wont-accept-them https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... I have been on a section 8 waiting list for ten years, I am still well past 200 on the waiting list. Women and families always just ahead of me and section 8 housing is as rare as any other cheap housing.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
> these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people that decrease the quality of life for everyone. The anti-social people decreasing everyone's quality of life are the people creating and supporting policies like this one that criminalize mere access to shared public resources. Barring extreme mental illness that is nowhere near as prevalent as people seem to think, no one wants to be shitting on the ground in public. No one is willingly destroying their own property, personal or shared. If they're vandalizing parks it's because you've successfully made it no longer theirs. Why would they value it when you respect the property more than their lives? > But don’t tell others what they have to tolerate where they live. No. Wherever you live you have to tolerate people. You have to tolerate the consequences of our own policies. We have chosen to make a world where people can have nothing and be treated as less than human because of it. You must tolerate that or change it. Punishing people for experiencing the consequences you have imposed on them is monstrous. You can't dodge that moral burden by appealing to this limited concept of freedom.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  > You have to tolerate the consequences of our own policies. Thank you for saying this. The wealthy love to externalize the human costs of their lifestyle.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

> these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people We are treated as less than human. Why would we not be anti-social? American society is anti-social. Imagine if someone told you you could not use the bathroom in your house, where would you shit? We have nothing and have to steal to survive, we have crippling stress so we take drugs to escape because we cannot get the psychedelics that are cool drugs? You think we just appear out of the ether, that there is no greater social issue happening. I would love to be able to compartmentalize as you do, it might help me sleep at night. I invite you all to watch some of our stories son this YouTube channel Invisible People. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos

bequanna 4y ago
> We have nothing and have to steal to survive Well, if I am picking on you specifically (apologies) it seems that you have: abundant time, access to the internet, a solid command of the english language, and if you're in the US access to a myriad of social and mental health services that would easily raise your standard of living to Lower Middle class if you took advantage. Not to mention the endless non-profit groups that offer safe shelter options, free food, etc. Speaking on behalf of society: We don't like seeing you struggle or in pain, but what else do you want from us?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  I say "we" because I do not separate myself form others, no matter the circumstance. I am one of the lucky homeless. I was a network engineer making bank at Cisco before I became ill so my disability payments are higher than average. Do you know the cure for Neuropsychiatric Lupus? You think I am just not trying hard enough? You think people right now I can write a sentence and use a laptop that later I am not crippled with anxiety or pain and my white blood cells vanish? You know how many employers fired me because I called in sick just one day even though they knew I was disabled? You know how many apartments I could not rent, not because I did not have the money but because I was on disability? (I sued a landlord over this and won actually.) And services? They have been cutting services ever since I was first disabled. Endless non-profit groups that do nothing? In my home town there were five non-profits to house the homeless. I went to all five, still homeless. "Safe shelter"? Spend a night in a shelter anywhere and tell me how safe you feel. You think you know my story like you know every other homeless persons story. It is all so simple for you, isn't it, when you make up a fantasy in your head? I hope you do not get long covid or some other known disorder they have no idea how to treat. Unlike you, when I speak, I speak for the people who need more than I do. I am grateful for the help I do have, but it is a purgatory of torture and suffering. I was getting better until COVID turned my housing struggle into homelessness and all that happened was this with houses got more houses.
  - bequanna 4y ago
    I feel for you, I really do. It sounds like you're struggling and that is awful to hear. But I did ask the question above in good faith: What more could be done? For example, Exactly what is standing in the way between you and having a Section 8 apartment (or whatever)? Is there something specific that needs to change?
    - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
      > Is there something specific that needs to change? Stop people from using housing as an investment. Stop voting for either corporate party. Fight to pass laws banning the ownership of multiple houses. Fight for social housing like they have in Europe. Represent us in your town halls to fight agains the anti-homeless/poverty laws and fight for more funding for section 8 and low income housing. Do not vote for people who magically find $40 billion for Ukraine but cannot find money for homeless/healthcare. Make politicians earn your vote instead of just voting for the least bad person. End all the deductions for owning a house. End AirBnB in any community that cannot afford to house their poorest. Frankly, the FED might help me more than anyone else once they raise rates and housing prices collapse. And people think Section 8 is some magic thing, but section 8 is only half of it. If a landlord will not accept it a voucher is useless: https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2021/05/12/biden-wants-to-offer-more-housing-vouchers-many-landlords-wont-accept-them https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... I have been on a section 8 waiting list for ten years, I am still well past 200 on the waiting list. Women and families always just ahead of me and section 8 housing is as rare as any other cheap housing.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

> these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people that decrease the quality of life for everyone. The anti-social people decreasing everyone's quality of life are the people creating and supporting policies like this one that criminalize mere access to shared public resources. Barring extreme mental illness that is nowhere near as prevalent as people seem to think, no one wants to be shitting on the ground in public. No one is willingly destroying their own property, personal or shared. If they're vandalizing parks it's because you've successfully made it no longer theirs. Why would they value it when you respect the property more than their lives? > But don’t tell others what they have to tolerate where they live. No. Wherever you live you have to tolerate people. You have to tolerate the consequences of our own policies. We have chosen to make a world where people can have nothing and be treated as less than human because of it. You must tolerate that or change it. Punishing people for experiencing the consequences you have imposed on them is monstrous. You can't dodge that moral burden by appealing to this limited concept of freedom.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> You have to tolerate the consequences of our own policies. Thank you for saying this. The wealthy love to externalize the human costs of their lifestyle.