5 ms·

Reposting a dead comment because it's good, see below. Alot of these people are homeless because they're mentally ill. So this is essentially criminalizing be

Reposting a dead comment because it's good, see below. Alot of these people are homeless because they're mentally ill. So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill. This third world country setup already happening in L.A. and in the Bay. Massive homeless encampments a few blocks from 7 figure houses. Also, America has made it next to impossible to escape homelessness once one has become homeless. A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. Meanwhile we just gave how many billions to Ukraine? It really baffles me why there's so little political will to help our own people in this country. Homeless people, College students, older people, the sick, the poor, etc. """This is essentially a problem to be pushed onto accomodating states since there is no political will (no one wants the optics of being the bad guy putting people in mental institutions) to solve this at the national level. This is how it ends: The US becomes more like Brazil/India and more gated palaces next to miles of slums."""

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Excellent comment, thanks for saving it from the abyss.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
>"So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill." Institutionalizing the kinds of severely mentally ill people who would benefit most from this kind of care is practically impossible, thanks to efforts from civil rights activists decades ago. Resources to help homeless with mental illness exist, but sadly these programs are all voluntary and have no real way to make someone follow through with treatment.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  It was not the fault of the civil rights activists. The institution were closed because they were gulags and torture centers. I should have a choice of entering a health care facility if that health care facility is mistreating patients. The civil rights activists helped us. It was the states and U.S. Government that failed us by not providing alternative care. I was literally tortured in a privately run psychiatric hospital three years ago that I was forced to stay in for 10 days because of a misunderstanding. 10 days is the maximum Disability will pay for inpatient. Suddenly after 10 days I was better even thought I was fine on the first. I spoke to a doctor twice for a total of 10 minutes they whole stay. We are not stupid, the system and society treats us like garbage. And when we just want to be left alone and be simple and free they pass laws and raise prices on everything.
- meetups323 4y ago
  See "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and give proper thanks to the civil rights activists. At no point in history have we ever had a mental illness treatment doctrine that we can look back on and say "that was a good thing we did, go us". I happen to believe that the present day will be viewed upon no more favorably, what with our pills by the pocket-full and unregulated medical advertisements on social media. (Instagram sponsored content would seem to have the whole world believing they are in desperate need of antidepressants and Adderall, paid for by... the shillers of antidepressants and Adderall, how interesting.)
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Yes, Kesey's masterpiece could be remade today and would not be any less true. WhenI was in patient I had a nurse stealing my Klonopin telling me I had already taken it. When I told my lawyer she was gone the next day. The fact that I could not get my doctors to look at my mental illness as an immune disorder (even after I was diagnosed with Lupus) as being the cause of my mood disorder tells you everything about how ignorant practical care is for the mentally ill. I just had a psychotic break after catching COVID as well. Mental Illnesses are immune disorders.
  - edmcnulty101 4y ago
    I'm a fan of government availability not government enforcement. These things aren't even available to people if they want them.
FollowingTheDao 4y ago
(OP Here) Yes. I am homeless and have a Mental Illness (Neuropsychiatric Lupus) and on Permanent Disability. Just had COVID as well that triggered a psychosis. That was fun. I think about killing myself every other day but only alive because I do not know what dead is like and if it is any better. The small town I live no longer is accepting Medicare for Mental Health treatment. They can not pay people enough to afford to live here, Too bad, so sad. I know at times I need to be in an institution. I remember when my mother used to go in the 70s. It was a nice place. This is not true anymore. But yes, people want me to be upset about some Ukrainian child and then they wonder why people vote for people like Trump. I am not asking for much, just a small, safe studio apartment when I can have some stability and work part time. But the MBAs all want to build "luxury" studios because ROI. I know I can do it, I know what is wrong with me and how to treat myself. The delusion is that people think the homeless are lazy/do not want to work. Having a job is easy. Being homeless is work. Then they make laws like this? We need national laws regarding the rights of the homeless.
- TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
  Thank you for this comment, it's changed my perspective. I too had a spat of homelessness in my early 20's when i lost my mom & job at the same time. You seem to have a gift of gab, have you ever tried copywriting on upwork/fiver? Might be a promising direction to get you some stability and a small safe studio. Work from library's until you can afford a cheap room on craigslist.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    That I changed your perspective, well thank you for saying that, because, well, just because. I just cannot explain the difficulty. First with working. My mood disorder throws me into instability that is catastrophic. I was an accomplished photographer (published) and was selling photographs locally making some extra money. I had an episode where I destroyed thousands of my black and white negatives. Years of work, gone. I could move to the middle of nowhere and afford an apartment for say $700/month (if they rent it to me), but then I will not have healthcare. The places I can have healthcare, I cannot even afford a small studio never mind the first, last and despot needed to get the apartment. And many of these apartments have minimum income requirements that I am nowhere close to. And then it means I have to move away from the already meager social support I do have. Then when I am paying 60% of my income in rent, how doing I afford my car, meds, doctors, heat, etc? There are just so many roadblocks that people do not appreciate. As I said I had four homeless agencies trying to help me find housing and they could not help me, so it was not a lack of trying. And renting a room is impossible. How many of you would share a house with someone you did not know who was on disability with a mental illness? I would not want to even put someone through living with my suffering if they did not know what they were getting into. I have just turned 55 so I am lucky that more option are opening, but there is so much competition for low income housing.
bequanna 4y ago
So, in your closing example Tennessee would be a “gated palace”? I don’t buy it and I sympathize with the people that are saying “enough”. Enough human shit on the sidewalks, enough destruction of our shared public spaces, enough not being able to go into certain areas after dark, enough open hard drug use, enough car break ins and armed robbery. The people in these makeshift homeless camps are not homogenous in their background, needs, etc. But I think one thing we can all agree on is that these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people that decrease the quality of life for everyone. Many of them not mentally ill, just opportunistic criminals. If some other states (or you) want to support and foster this, I say fine. Let these people go there. The differences in our states and free movement is part of what makes the US great. But don’t tell others what they have to tolerate where they live.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  > these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people We are treated as less than human. Why would we not be anti-social? American society is anti-social. Imagine if someone told you you could not use the bathroom in your house, where would you shit? We have nothing and have to steal to survive, we have crippling stress so we take drugs to escape because we cannot get the psychedelics that are cool drugs? You think we just appear out of the ether, that there is no greater social issue happening. I would love to be able to compartmentalize as you do, it might help me sleep at night. I invite you all to watch some of our stories son this YouTube channel Invisible People. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos
  - bequanna 4y ago
    > We have nothing and have to steal to survive Well, if I am picking on you specifically (apologies) it seems that you have: abundant time, access to the internet, a solid command of the english language, and if you're in the US access to a myriad of social and mental health services that would easily raise your standard of living to Lower Middle class if you took advantage. Not to mention the endless non-profit groups that offer safe shelter options, free food, etc. Speaking on behalf of society: We don't like seeing you struggle or in pain, but what else do you want from us?
reactjavascript 4y ago
Sounds like a “burbclave” as predicted in the 90’s in Snow Crash
juanani 4y ago
Cus sending money to Ukraine benefits our politicians (wether thru holding 'defense' stocks or investments in rebuilding Ukr). Helping out the poor is un-American, anti capitalistic.
gamblor956 4y ago
A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. There was an article in the LAT last week on this point. It turns out, most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. It's so bad that a rehab diversion program had fewer than 1% of eligible users take advantage of it last year. It's why so many of them are homeless in the first place: by choice. Because being housed means giving up drugs, or alcohol, or having to take medications. And most of them don't want to do that. A minority of homeless are involuntarily and temporarily unhoused and would benefit from a bed, shower, and clothes. Unfortunately, we waste most of our money trying to house the voluntary homeless/drug addicts instead of the ones who actually need it.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  > most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. Watch these videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos As someone who has known many homeless people, the majority neither want to use drugs nor be homeless. I do not know many people who choose to be addicts. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. I also meet so many women whose decent into homelessness was caused by sexual abuse. And go to a shelter for a night and tell me if you would choose that over a bottle of vodka... Maggots, sexual abuse, filthy bathrooms: Orange County homeless shelters’ grim conditions detailed in ACLU report https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-abuse-unsanitary-conditions-common-at-orange-county-homeless-shelters/ https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-ab...
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    Former public defender, all of my clients were homeless individuals. Also live within walking distance of Skid Row. I can say from personal experience that the majority of the homeless I meet are (a) on drugs and (b) choose to stay homeless over utilizing shelter space (because almost all shelters in LA are sober). LAT literally just had an article about this confirming this. The vast majority of the visible homeless in LA are homeless by choice. And we have thousands of empty shelter beds every night because of this. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. Opiods were not the root cause of drug addition for most of the LA's homeless drug addicts, so blaming the pharmaceutical companies is silly of you. Opiods only recently overtook other drugs on LA's drug scene. Try giving a homeless person food in LA when they ask for money for food. 99% of the time they'll just throw it back at you, because they really want the money to buy alcohol or drugs. And I say that from experience.
hn_version_0023 4y ago
> It really baffles me why there's so little political will to help our own people in this country. In my experience, the cruelty is the point. Its not a lack of political will. Its a direct punishment for not being a member of the 1%. It’s your motivation to become one of the 1%. Its the logical result of pushing individualism over any form of collectivism. Selfishness rules and cruel punishments are the norm.
- moistly 4y ago
  It’s a direct punishment for not being blessed by God, c.f. the ever-popular and uniquely American prosperity gospel.
- ashwagary 4y ago
  I think creating a class of people that are more easily exploitable is the goal. Any relief would obstruct that objective.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  I never thought of it this way, but wow. I am imagining these laws as some weird Jungian subconscious thing.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Excellent comment, thanks for saving it from the abyss.

BitwiseFool 4y ago

>"So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill." Institutionalizing the kinds of severely mentally ill people who would benefit most from this kind of care is practically impossible, thanks to efforts from civil rights activists decades ago. Resources to help homeless with mental illness exist, but sadly these programs are all voluntary and have no real way to make someone follow through with treatment.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
It was not the fault of the civil rights activists. The institution were closed because they were gulags and torture centers. I should have a choice of entering a health care facility if that health care facility is mistreating patients. The civil rights activists helped us. It was the states and U.S. Government that failed us by not providing alternative care. I was literally tortured in a privately run psychiatric hospital three years ago that I was forced to stay in for 10 days because of a misunderstanding. 10 days is the maximum Disability will pay for inpatient. Suddenly after 10 days I was better even thought I was fine on the first. I spoke to a doctor twice for a total of 10 minutes they whole stay. We are not stupid, the system and society treats us like garbage. And when we just want to be left alone and be simple and free they pass laws and raise prices on everything.
meetups323 4y ago
See "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and give proper thanks to the civil rights activists. At no point in history have we ever had a mental illness treatment doctrine that we can look back on and say "that was a good thing we did, go us". I happen to believe that the present day will be viewed upon no more favorably, what with our pills by the pocket-full and unregulated medical advertisements on social media. (Instagram sponsored content would seem to have the whole world believing they are in desperate need of antidepressants and Adderall, paid for by... the shillers of antidepressants and Adderall, how interesting.)
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Yes, Kesey's masterpiece could be remade today and would not be any less true. WhenI was in patient I had a nurse stealing my Klonopin telling me I had already taken it. When I told my lawyer she was gone the next day. The fact that I could not get my doctors to look at my mental illness as an immune disorder (even after I was diagnosed with Lupus) as being the cause of my mood disorder tells you everything about how ignorant practical care is for the mentally ill. I just had a psychotic break after catching COVID as well. Mental Illnesses are immune disorders.
- edmcnulty101 4y ago
  I'm a fan of government availability not government enforcement. These things aren't even available to people if they want them.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

(OP Here) Yes. I am homeless and have a Mental Illness (Neuropsychiatric Lupus) and on Permanent Disability. Just had COVID as well that triggered a psychosis. That was fun. I think about killing myself every other day but only alive because I do not know what dead is like and if it is any better. The small town I live no longer is accepting Medicare for Mental Health treatment. They can not pay people enough to afford to live here, Too bad, so sad. I know at times I need to be in an institution. I remember when my mother used to go in the 70s. It was a nice place. This is not true anymore. But yes, people want me to be upset about some Ukrainian child and then they wonder why people vote for people like Trump. I am not asking for much, just a small, safe studio apartment when I can have some stability and work part time. But the MBAs all want to build "luxury" studios because ROI. I know I can do it, I know what is wrong with me and how to treat myself. The delusion is that people think the homeless are lazy/do not want to work. Having a job is easy. Being homeless is work. Then they make laws like this? We need national laws regarding the rights of the homeless.

TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
Thank you for this comment, it's changed my perspective. I too had a spat of homelessness in my early 20's when i lost my mom & job at the same time. You seem to have a gift of gab, have you ever tried copywriting on upwork/fiver? Might be a promising direction to get you some stability and a small safe studio. Work from library's until you can afford a cheap room on craigslist.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  That I changed your perspective, well thank you for saying that, because, well, just because. I just cannot explain the difficulty. First with working. My mood disorder throws me into instability that is catastrophic. I was an accomplished photographer (published) and was selling photographs locally making some extra money. I had an episode where I destroyed thousands of my black and white negatives. Years of work, gone. I could move to the middle of nowhere and afford an apartment for say $700/month (if they rent it to me), but then I will not have healthcare. The places I can have healthcare, I cannot even afford a small studio never mind the first, last and despot needed to get the apartment. And many of these apartments have minimum income requirements that I am nowhere close to. And then it means I have to move away from the already meager social support I do have. Then when I am paying 60% of my income in rent, how doing I afford my car, meds, doctors, heat, etc? There are just so many roadblocks that people do not appreciate. As I said I had four homeless agencies trying to help me find housing and they could not help me, so it was not a lack of trying. And renting a room is impossible. How many of you would share a house with someone you did not know who was on disability with a mental illness? I would not want to even put someone through living with my suffering if they did not know what they were getting into. I have just turned 55 so I am lucky that more option are opening, but there is so much competition for low income housing.

bequanna 4y ago

So, in your closing example Tennessee would be a “gated palace”? I don’t buy it and I sympathize with the people that are saying “enough”. Enough human shit on the sidewalks, enough destruction of our shared public spaces, enough not being able to go into certain areas after dark, enough open hard drug use, enough car break ins and armed robbery. The people in these makeshift homeless camps are not homogenous in their background, needs, etc. But I think one thing we can all agree on is that these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people that decrease the quality of life for everyone. Many of them not mentally ill, just opportunistic criminals. If some other states (or you) want to support and foster this, I say fine. Let these people go there. The differences in our states and free movement is part of what makes the US great. But don’t tell others what they have to tolerate where they live.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> these sites DO attract an outsized group of extremely antisocial people We are treated as less than human. Why would we not be anti-social? American society is anti-social. Imagine if someone told you you could not use the bathroom in your house, where would you shit? We have nothing and have to steal to survive, we have crippling stress so we take drugs to escape because we cannot get the psychedelics that are cool drugs? You think we just appear out of the ether, that there is no greater social issue happening. I would love to be able to compartmentalize as you do, it might help me sleep at night. I invite you all to watch some of our stories son this YouTube channel Invisible People. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos
- bequanna 4y ago
  > We have nothing and have to steal to survive Well, if I am picking on you specifically (apologies) it seems that you have: abundant time, access to the internet, a solid command of the english language, and if you're in the US access to a myriad of social and mental health services that would easily raise your standard of living to Lower Middle class if you took advantage. Not to mention the endless non-profit groups that offer safe shelter options, free food, etc. Speaking on behalf of society: We don't like seeing you struggle or in pain, but what else do you want from us?

reactjavascript 4y ago

Sounds like a “burbclave” as predicted in the 90’s in Snow Crash

juanani 4y ago

Cus sending money to Ukraine benefits our politicians (wether thru holding 'defense' stocks or investments in rebuilding Ukr). Helping out the poor is un-American, anti capitalistic.

gamblor956 4y ago

A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. There was an article in the LAT last week on this point. It turns out, most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. It's so bad that a rehab diversion program had fewer than 1% of eligible users take advantage of it last year. It's why so many of them are homeless in the first place: by choice. Because being housed means giving up drugs, or alcohol, or having to take medications. And most of them don't want to do that. A minority of homeless are involuntarily and temporarily unhoused and would benefit from a bed, shower, and clothes. Unfortunately, we waste most of our money trying to house the voluntary homeless/drug addicts instead of the ones who actually need it.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> most of the homeless prefer to have access to drugs over shelter. Watch these videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/InvisiblePeople/videos As someone who has known many homeless people, the majority neither want to use drugs nor be homeless. I do not know many people who choose to be addicts. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. I also meet so many women whose decent into homelessness was caused by sexual abuse. And go to a shelter for a night and tell me if you would choose that over a bottle of vodka... Maggots, sexual abuse, filthy bathrooms: Orange County homeless shelters’ grim conditions detailed in ACLU report https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-abuse-unsanitary-conditions-common-at-orange-county-homeless-shelters/ https://www.ocregister.com/2019/03/14/aclu-report-alleges-ab...
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Former public defender, all of my clients were homeless individuals. Also live within walking distance of Skid Row. I can say from personal experience that the majority of the homeless I meet are (a) on drugs and (b) choose to stay homeless over utilizing shelter space (because almost all shelters in LA are sober). LAT literally just had an article about this confirming this. The vast majority of the visible homeless in LA are homeless by choice. And we have thousands of empty shelter beds every night because of this. And to lay all this addiction on the addicts and not the pharmaceutical companies is brave of you. Opiods were not the root cause of drug addition for most of the LA's homeless drug addicts, so blaming the pharmaceutical companies is silly of you. Opiods only recently overtook other drugs on LA's drug scene. Try giving a homeless person food in LA when they ask for money for food. 99% of the time they'll just throw it back at you, because they really want the money to buy alcohol or drugs. And I say that from experience.

hn_version_0023 4y ago

> It really baffles me why there's so little political will to help our own people in this country. In my experience, the cruelty is the point. Its not a lack of political will. Its a direct punishment for not being a member of the 1%. It’s your motivation to become one of the 1%. Its the logical result of pushing individualism over any form of collectivism. Selfishness rules and cruel punishments are the norm.

moistly 4y ago
It’s a direct punishment for not being blessed by God, c.f. the ever-popular and uniquely American prosperity gospel.
ashwagary 4y ago
I think creating a class of people that are more easily exploitable is the goal. Any relief would obstruct that objective.
FollowingTheDao 4y ago
I never thought of it this way, but wow. I am imagining these laws as some weird Jungian subconscious thing.