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Public Camping will be a Felony in Tennessee starting June first

rdubs333 4y ago
Beef Supreme is gonna have to lay the law down
p09ss 4y ago
This is essentially a problem to be pushed onto accomodating states since there is no political will (no one wants the optics of being the bad guy putting people in mental institutions) to solve this at the national level. This is how it ends: The US becomes more like Brazil/India and more gated palaces next to miles of slums.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  I’ve come to the conclusion that this kind of policy, and others like it are a significant part of why the major cities of the West Coast have such big homeless encampments. Essentially every US state is in a zero sum game with every other state regarding who will actually take some responsibility for the cannot or will not take care of themselves. It’s a nationwide game of musical chairs where conservative leaning states can pretend to “solve” their homelessness problem by shifting the population elsewhere. Just one more embarrassing, infuriating thing about politics in this country.
  - moistly 4y ago
    That’s how has worked in Canada. Prairie provinces literally bought one-way bus tickets to Vancouver, BC, for the homeless and addicted.
edmcnulty101 4y ago
Reposting a dead comment because it's good, see below. Alot of these people are homeless because they're mentally ill. So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill. This third world country setup already happening in L.A. and in the Bay. Massive homeless encampments a few blocks from 7 figure houses. Also, America has made it next to impossible to escape homelessness once one has become homeless. A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. Meanwhile we just gave how many billions to Ukraine? It really baffles me why there's so little political will to help our own people in this country. Homeless people, College students, older people, the sick, the poor, etc. """This is essentially a problem to be pushed onto accomodating states since there is no political will (no one wants the optics of being the bad guy putting people in mental institutions) to solve this at the national level. This is how it ends: The US becomes more like Brazil/India and more gated palaces next to miles of slums."""
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Excellent comment, thanks for saving it from the abyss.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  >"So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill." Institutionalizing the kinds of severely mentally ill people who would benefit most from this kind of care is practically impossible, thanks to efforts from civil rights activists decades ago. Resources to help homeless with mental illness exist, but sadly these programs are all voluntary and have no real way to make someone follow through with treatment.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    It was not the fault of the civil rights activists. The institution were closed because they were gulags and torture centers. I should have a choice of entering a health care facility if that health care facility is mistreating patients. The civil rights activists helped us. It was the states and U.S. Government that failed us by not providing alternative care. I was literally tortured in a privately run psychiatric hospital three years ago that I was forced to stay in for 10 days because of a misunderstanding. 10 days is the maximum Disability will pay for inpatient. Suddenly after 10 days I was better even thought I was fine on the first. I spoke to a doctor twice for a total of 10 minutes they whole stay. We are not stupid, the system and society treats us like garbage. And when we just want to be left alone and be simple and free they pass laws and raise prices on everything.
  - meetups323 4y ago
    See "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and give proper thanks to the civil rights activists. At no point in history have we ever had a mental illness treatment doctrine that we can look back on and say "that was a good thing we did, go us". I happen to believe that the present day will be viewed upon no more favorably, what with our pills by the pocket-full and unregulated medical advertisements on social media. (Instagram sponsored content would seem to have the whole world believing they are in desperate need of antidepressants and Adderall, paid for by... the shillers of antidepressants and Adderall, how interesting.)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BirAdam 4y ago
Many homeless people are homeless due to housing costs and not mental health. Constant low interest rates on money push money into land, stocks, and precious metal. These sky rocket in price and push people who have jobs and are mentally sound into tents. This has been true in Hawaii for some time, but it is now spreading across the nation with tent cities popping up everywhere. Rents are often over $1400 for a one bedroom apartment, and mortgages are higher still. Even where mortgages are lower than rents, there is a barrier to entry in houses of needing a down payment. Until politicians gain the will to allow for a real correction and a real price on money, this will not stop.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Yes, the middle class is pushing the homeless problem out of their minds because they have been profiting because their assets have all been increasing; stocks, houses, etc. Then they make more money by renting an ADU on AirBnB for 3x the rental cost to another person in the middle class who wants a vacation paid for by their increasing assets. I have met more and more new homeless who are now struggling with mental health issues since they became homeless as well. The stress will do that to a person. I try to be the person that pushes them towards the spiritual rather than the medicinal to ease the stress.
- vinyl7 4y ago
  $2100/mo for a tiny studio, $2400+ for 1 bed room apartment, or even $3k for a two bedroom where I am in Southern California. If the 30% rule is to be followed, a person would have to be pulling in $7,200/mo for 1 bedroom...that would be a salary of $130k/yr. We really need a recession/crash to reset the housing market, otherwise we're going to end up with a bunch of oligarchs owning all the properties while the millennial populace will be on the streets
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - _Parfait_ 4y ago
    Why is the solution to have a housing crash that evicts people from their homes? Housing is the most simple supply/demand issue imaginable. Remove red tape, stop with the restrictive zoning and build more housing. The issue is we've told generations of people to buy a house quickly so they can profit off of restrictive zoning because the price of their homes will go up. This cycle has create in immovable NIMBY class. The solution isn't crashing the American economy.
tinalumfoil 4y ago
> In pushing the expansion, Sen. Paul Bailey noted that no one has been convicted under that law and said he doesn’t expect this one to be enforced much, either. Something worth noting about the US Justice system, is it's become a dance with tough-on-crime legislators pushing insane penalties that and prosecutors who force defendants to plea crimes down, at the threat of imposing those penalties. That is, it just makes it easier for prosecutors to punish campers since instead of charging them with a petty crime they say, "hey, plead guilty to a reasonable sentence or we'll take you to trial and if we win you'll no longer be a free citizen." It's a clever workaround to the 5th amendment, which gives defendants lots rights and imposes really expensive standards like "beyond a reasonable doubt" on prosecutors.
softcactus 4y ago
Meanwhile trespassing is only a misdemeanor. Hopefully nobody decides to sleep on the lawns of the legislators. https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-criminal-trespassing-laws.html https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-crimin...
randyrand 4y ago
Why should a state decide what is a felony? Shouldn't the restriction of federal rights be limited to federal law? i.e. the right to bear arms, the right to vote.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  One of those rights is Amendment 10, which basically says the state has authority in things not explicitly laid out in the Constitution. Felony just refers to the severity of crime: murder, robbery, theft (over a certain level), sexual assault, repeat DWIs, etc are all felonies.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
Can a state make something a felony?? I thought that only applied to federal laws. I've never visited the US but I thought a felony meant breaking federal laws.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  That's not correct. Felony just refers to the the severity of a crime (with lesser crimes being misdemeanor). Federal vs. state felonies are just a matter of jurisdiction.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Thanks for the explanation. Good to be more aware.
    - mywittyname 4y ago
      To add to this, felonies are the ones that fuck you for life by striping you of constitutional rights and making it difficult/impossible to find meaningful employment. Meaning, the people pushing these laws are evil.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        If someone is convicted for public camping then yeah, that's totally unwarranted and insane :) For murder, rape etc I think such measures would be justified.
UncleEntity 4y ago
> Homelessness among U.S. military veterans, for example, has been cut nearly in half over the past decade through a combination of housing subsidies and social services. Yep, about a decade ago I was technically homeless but the VA found me a veteran’s shelter so I could get back on my feet. You only have to ask and they will help you. Though… three or four years ago the woman who my landlord hired got tired of my late rent shenanigans and forced me out (I say forced because the owner honestly didn’t care and had no idea what she was doing). The VA has programs to keep you from becoming homeless but it is impossible to access them. Homeless? They will help. Going to be homeless? Come back when you haven’t had a roof over your head for at least one night.
olliej 4y ago
What are homeless people actually meant to do? If the expectation is “leave TN” then do other states get to bill TN for their failure to adequately run their state?
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  > What are homeless people actually meant to do? In neoliberalism; "Hurry up and die."
timcavel 4y ago
pontifier 4y ago
Red tape is killing the country. NIMBYs should have to vote with their feet and find a new place rather than stopping things where they are.

Beef Supreme is gonna have to lay the law down

This is essentially a problem to be pushed onto accomodating states since there is no political will (no one wants the optics of being the bad guy putting people in mental institutions) to solve this at the national level. This is how it ends: The US becomes more like Brazil/India and more gated palaces next to miles of slums.

swearwolf 4y ago
I’ve come to the conclusion that this kind of policy, and others like it are a significant part of why the major cities of the West Coast have such big homeless encampments. Essentially every US state is in a zero sum game with every other state regarding who will actually take some responsibility for the cannot or will not take care of themselves. It’s a nationwide game of musical chairs where conservative leaning states can pretend to “solve” their homelessness problem by shifting the population elsewhere. Just one more embarrassing, infuriating thing about politics in this country.
- moistly 4y ago
  That’s how has worked in Canada. Prairie provinces literally bought one-way bus tickets to Vancouver, BC, for the homeless and addicted.

edmcnulty101 4y ago

Reposting a dead comment because it's good, see below. Alot of these people are homeless because they're mentally ill. So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill. This third world country setup already happening in L.A. and in the Bay. Massive homeless encampments a few blocks from 7 figure houses. Also, America has made it next to impossible to escape homelessness once one has become homeless. A shower, some medicine, some job interview clothes could go a long way to help some of these people, but that's next to impossible for someone under a bridge. Mental health could go a long way as well. Instead we just push them out sight. Meanwhile we just gave how many billions to Ukraine? It really baffles me why there's so little political will to help our own people in this country. Homeless people, College students, older people, the sick, the poor, etc. """This is essentially a problem to be pushed onto accomodating states since there is no political will (no one wants the optics of being the bad guy putting people in mental institutions) to solve this at the national level. This is how it ends: The US becomes more like Brazil/India and more gated palaces next to miles of slums."""

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Excellent comment, thanks for saving it from the abyss.
BitwiseFool 4y ago
>"So this is essentially criminalizing being mentally ill." Institutionalizing the kinds of severely mentally ill people who would benefit most from this kind of care is practically impossible, thanks to efforts from civil rights activists decades ago. Resources to help homeless with mental illness exist, but sadly these programs are all voluntary and have no real way to make someone follow through with treatment.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  It was not the fault of the civil rights activists. The institution were closed because they were gulags and torture centers. I should have a choice of entering a health care facility if that health care facility is mistreating patients. The civil rights activists helped us. It was the states and U.S. Government that failed us by not providing alternative care. I was literally tortured in a privately run psychiatric hospital three years ago that I was forced to stay in for 10 days because of a misunderstanding. 10 days is the maximum Disability will pay for inpatient. Suddenly after 10 days I was better even thought I was fine on the first. I spoke to a doctor twice for a total of 10 minutes they whole stay. We are not stupid, the system and society treats us like garbage. And when we just want to be left alone and be simple and free they pass laws and raise prices on everything.
- meetups323 4y ago
  See "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" and give proper thanks to the civil rights activists. At no point in history have we ever had a mental illness treatment doctrine that we can look back on and say "that was a good thing we did, go us". I happen to believe that the present day will be viewed upon no more favorably, what with our pills by the pocket-full and unregulated medical advertisements on social media. (Instagram sponsored content would seem to have the whole world believing they are in desperate need of antidepressants and Adderall, paid for by... the shillers of antidepressants and Adderall, how interesting.)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

BirAdam 4y ago

Many homeless people are homeless due to housing costs and not mental health. Constant low interest rates on money push money into land, stocks, and precious metal. These sky rocket in price and push people who have jobs and are mentally sound into tents. This has been true in Hawaii for some time, but it is now spreading across the nation with tent cities popping up everywhere. Rents are often over $1400 for a one bedroom apartment, and mortgages are higher still. Even where mortgages are lower than rents, there is a barrier to entry in houses of needing a down payment. Until politicians gain the will to allow for a real correction and a real price on money, this will not stop.

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
Yes, the middle class is pushing the homeless problem out of their minds because they have been profiting because their assets have all been increasing; stocks, houses, etc. Then they make more money by renting an ADU on AirBnB for 3x the rental cost to another person in the middle class who wants a vacation paid for by their increasing assets. I have met more and more new homeless who are now struggling with mental health issues since they became homeless as well. The stress will do that to a person. I try to be the person that pushes them towards the spiritual rather than the medicinal to ease the stress.
vinyl7 4y ago
$2100/mo for a tiny studio, $2400+ for 1 bed room apartment, or even $3k for a two bedroom where I am in Southern California. If the 30% rule is to be followed, a person would have to be pulling in $7,200/mo for 1 bedroom...that would be a salary of $130k/yr. We really need a recession/crash to reset the housing market, otherwise we're going to end up with a bunch of oligarchs owning all the properties while the millennial populace will be on the streets
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- _Parfait_ 4y ago
  Why is the solution to have a housing crash that evicts people from their homes? Housing is the most simple supply/demand issue imaginable. Remove red tape, stop with the restrictive zoning and build more housing. The issue is we've told generations of people to buy a house quickly so they can profit off of restrictive zoning because the price of their homes will go up. This cycle has create in immovable NIMBY class. The solution isn't crashing the American economy.

tinalumfoil 4y ago

> In pushing the expansion, Sen. Paul Bailey noted that no one has been convicted under that law and said he doesn’t expect this one to be enforced much, either. Something worth noting about the US Justice system, is it's become a dance with tough-on-crime legislators pushing insane penalties that and prosecutors who force defendants to plea crimes down, at the threat of imposing those penalties. That is, it just makes it easier for prosecutors to punish campers since instead of charging them with a petty crime they say, "hey, plead guilty to a reasonable sentence or we'll take you to trial and if we win you'll no longer be a free citizen." It's a clever workaround to the 5th amendment, which gives defendants lots rights and imposes really expensive standards like "beyond a reasonable doubt" on prosecutors.

softcactus 4y ago

Meanwhile trespassing is only a misdemeanor. Hopefully nobody decides to sleep on the lawns of the legislators. https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-criminal-trespassing-laws.html https://www.findlaw.com/state/tennessee-law/tennessee-crimin...

randyrand 4y ago

Why should a state decide what is a felony? Shouldn't the restriction of federal rights be limited to federal law? i.e. the right to bear arms, the right to vote.

bdcravens 4y ago
One of those rights is Amendment 10, which basically says the state has authority in things not explicitly laid out in the Constitution. Felony just refers to the severity of crime: murder, robbery, theft (over a certain level), sexual assault, repeat DWIs, etc are all felonies.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

Can a state make something a felony?? I thought that only applied to federal laws. I've never visited the US but I thought a felony meant breaking federal laws.

bdcravens 4y ago
That's not correct. Felony just refers to the the severity of a crime (with lesser crimes being misdemeanor). Federal vs. state felonies are just a matter of jurisdiction.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Thanks for the explanation. Good to be more aware.
  - mywittyname 4y ago
    To add to this, felonies are the ones that fuck you for life by striping you of constitutional rights and making it difficult/impossible to find meaningful employment. Meaning, the people pushing these laws are evil.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      If someone is convicted for public camping then yeah, that's totally unwarranted and insane :) For murder, rape etc I think such measures would be justified.

UncleEntity 4y ago

> Homelessness among U.S. military veterans, for example, has been cut nearly in half over the past decade through a combination of housing subsidies and social services. Yep, about a decade ago I was technically homeless but the VA found me a veteran’s shelter so I could get back on my feet. You only have to ask and they will help you. Though… three or four years ago the woman who my landlord hired got tired of my late rent shenanigans and forced me out (I say forced because the owner honestly didn’t care and had no idea what she was doing). The VA has programs to keep you from becoming homeless but it is impossible to access them. Homeless? They will help. Going to be homeless? Come back when you haven’t had a roof over your head for at least one night.

olliej 4y ago

What are homeless people actually meant to do? If the expectation is “leave TN” then do other states get to bill TN for their failure to adequately run their state?

FollowingTheDao 4y ago
> What are homeless people actually meant to do? In neoliberalism; "Hurry up and die."

timcavel 4y ago

pontifier 4y ago

Red tape is killing the country. NIMBYs should have to vote with their feet and find a new place rather than stopping things where they are.